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Voting Proposed For Debian Jessie's Init System

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  • #16
    I wonder how much money Canonical wasted with bazaar and upstart since both certainly have no future. No wonder the company isn't profitable.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by brosis View Post
      Its new to me that people pick technologies not based upon their superiority, but upon clueless user base. If Ubuntu had some BRAINS, they would abandon upstart and bazaar long ago, and instead take systemd and git and start CONTRIBUTING to it. Instead they choose that ownership right matter more than whole "together" (aka "ubuntu") thing and started to trash the ecosystem with *their* bicycles.

      Your comment is exactly the essence why many hate ubuntu.
      Upstart was released August, 2006.

      Systemd was released march, 2010.

      Canonical did and still is doing the right thing. Upstart is production ready, has been for many years and has been tested on a number of projects. Scraping their efforts for the sake of changing things makes no sense.

      Bzr at the time was interesting project that is still used by Canonical for the internal projects and for keeping track of ubuntu through launchpad. Moving to git will be a major endeavor that will eat up huge engineering time and will not make anything better.

      Honestly, I don't even know why you're mentioning git and bzr. They're versioning systems, which are one of the most boring parts of a programming project. Both tools do their job appropriately and are production ready.

      P.S. for debian it makes sense to go upstart. The project is healty ans stable. And debian nowafays plays the role of a staging ground for ubuntu, which has moved to upstart since many years ago.
      Last edited by Anarchy; 01-26-2014, 07:53 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Anarchy View Post
        Canonical did and still is doing the right thing. Upstart is production ready, has been for many years and has been tested on a number of projects. Scraping their efforts for the sake of some obscure changes makes no sense.
        The original author of Upstart agrees that the design of Upstart if flawed and needs fixing. It's a reply to one of the Google+ posts by Lennart. Further, that Upstart existed for years yet continues to have various flaws is a bad thing, not a good thing. "Some obscure changes": Here you're saying you don't know :P

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Anarchy View Post
          Who to fuck gives a shit if a company wants systemd when at least one third of all Linux users use Ubuntu. :-\
          source please... (and do not quote distrowatch please...)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by bkor View Post
            The original author of Upstart agrees that the design of Upstart if flawed and needs fixing. It's a reply to one of the Google+ posts by Lennart. Further, that Upstart existed for years yet continues to have various flaws is a bad thing, not a good thing. "Some obscure changes": Here you're saying you don't know :P
            So why did they wait for four years and then they released systemd instead of fixing upstart? I think someone is being dishonest here. And you're blaming Canonical for sticking with upstart and not really being in the spirit of open source.

            But, yeah, this is in the spirit of open source. Latest example is the llvm vs. gcc controversy.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by tomtomme View Post
              source please... (and do not quote distrowatch please...)
              source is my own work (university). Everybody who uses Linux uses plain vanilla Ubuntu. I sometimes see RHEL and SUSE.

              Although, because of all this infighting and shit throwing and lack of quality of basic software and vendor support most of the people have moved to windows and apple, which was unheard of in the university circles just couple of years ago. From that perspective we have lost big time.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Anarchy View Post
                So why did they wait for four years and then they released systemd instead of fixing upstart?
                Lennart Poettering and Kay Sievers have already answered this. The core design of Upstart is wrong, and even if it wasn't, there's still Canonical's CLA.
                Ubuntu is also only the most used distro on desktop systems.

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                • #23
                  i wonder if red hat and canonical are bribing some committee members

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                  • #24
                    Why vote when the only reasonable choice is OpenRC?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by xeekei View Post
                      Lennart Poettering
                      The guy who dedicated his life to ruining everything good in Linux? I can't deny he's right about upstart but this doesn't mean systemd is any better.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Anarchy View Post
                        So why did they wait for four years and then they released systemd instead of fixing upstart? I think someone is being dishonest here. And you're blaming Canonical for sticking with upstart and not really being in the spirit of open source.

                        But, yeah, this is in the spirit of open source. Latest example is the llvm vs. gcc controversy.
                        For some of us, you may share or not and you are free to do as you may, a big part of the spirit of open source is that every contributor has the same rights. So, sticking to upstart would have been being untrue to the spirit of open source for all of those that feel it that way, as the GPL+CLA means Canonical has got more rights than any other contributor. systemd's license is symmetric, and that's a must for some of us.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Anarchy View Post
                          P.S. for debian it makes sense to go upstart. The project is healty ans stable. And debian nowafays plays the role of a staging ground for ubuntu, which has moved to upstart since many years ago.
                          Debian shouldn't make decisions basing on what serves Ubuntu, but basing on what serves them. This role as "a staging ground for Ubuntu" is not something Debian asked for, or something that benefits them in any way. Plus, Ubuntu did OK without Debian using Upstart for default all this time, and it's not like it's being discussed using one and banishing forever the alternatives. What is being discussed is the default. Do you see Ubuntu using XFCE as DE because it's Debian's default? No? Well, that's why what Debian uses by default is not even relevant to Ubuntu.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by xeekei View Post
                            Lennart Poettering and Kay Sievers have already answered this. The core design of Upstart is wrong, and even if it wasn't, there's still Canonical's CLA.
                            Ubuntu is also only the most used distro on desktop systems.
                            Quoting two systemd developers' opinion of a competing product probably isn't the best way to demonstrate an unbiased point of view.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by prodigy_ View Post
                              The guy who dedicated his life to ruining everything good in Linux? I can't deny he's right about upstart but this doesn't mean systemd is any better.
                              Originally posted by Herem View Post
                              Quoting two systemd developers' opinion of a competing product probably isn't the best way to demonstrate an unbiased point of view.
                              Jeez, I was telling that user WHY they didn't improve upon Upstart and instead started a new project. Your blind systemd/Lennart hate is affecting your reading comprehension. I didn't say a thing about the accuracy of their opinion.
                              Last edited by xeekei; 01-26-2014, 09:24 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by prodigy_ View Post
                                Why vote when the only reasonable choice is OpenRC?
                                Because they don't want to handicap Debian.

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