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Fedora's Future Is Still Causing Lots Of Drama

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  • Fedora's Future Is Still Causing Lots Of Drama

    Phoronix: Fedora's Future Is Still Causing Lots Of Drama

    For those in need of some open-source drama to get your Friday morning started, there continues to be a lot of dissenting views shared between Fedora users and developers over the future of the Linux distribution with the ongoing "Fedora.next" initiative...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTU4MTg

  • #2
    New repositories, dependencies resolution, base system and installer... It's all talk right now, but Fedora.next looks to be essentially a new distribution.

    I suppose now that RH7 is set around F19/F20, they can finally take the time and get the big stuff done properly while they still can.

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    • #3
      Me I think it is better to delay the next version and do a .next change now, unless it cause problem with getting Wayland to be default compositor, has no new RHEL will be forked for a while, so it's time do major change.

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      • #4
        I dont see a problem in the parent company expanding their distro to the specific markets every other OS is doing ayway. AND Fedora is RH's bitch. Do as thou fucking please. None of us can stop them anyway should they wish otherwise and become AppleSoftish if that's your nightmarish imagination of RH. To me, as a person who wants to use it but never can rely on it, Fedora is awesome at pushing the limits and pokes back at the general crowd anyway and always an intrigue. I know it stablises. But zypper still won me over =P

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        • #5
          I don't really follow... I assume that "workstation" means desktop, which means that they'll just have a cloud and server spins, which makes sense. So what's the reported drama about? Updates?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
            I don't really follow... I assume that "workstation" means desktop, which means that they'll just have a cloud and server spins, which makes sense. So what's the reported drama about? Updates?
            its basically going back to the Redhat6 an beyond days before Fedora was born. what worries as long as they keep up to date with packages it doesnt bother me. but i could see this happening when they removed the old installer an made a New one. but no one knows how many releases Fedora will do. will they continue with the 6monthly release cycle or go to a 9month release cycle ( opensuse does a 9 month release cycle )

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            • #7
              Originally posted by phoronix View Post
              Phoronix: Fedora's Future Is Still Causing Lots Of Drama

              For those in need of some open-source drama to get your Friday morning started, there continues to be a lot of dissenting views shared between Fedora users and developers over the future of the Linux distribution with the ongoing "Fedora.next" initiative...

              http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTU4MTg
              They've already said that too much work has been done, especially by qa (maybe Adam can tell us more), for this not to happen now.
              This has been talked about for awhile, and lots got done at flock (if you weren't there I can see how this could seem so sudden). This will result in a far better product.
              What bothers me most, however, is the workstation WG. I really wish shaeller wasn't in "charge". I'd like to see fedora be willing to make changes to the gnome product to make it more suitable for a developer/sysadmin audience. Specifically I think the"average" user should be completely dropped (I think Owen suggested this with the caveat that the reason is that the prd's shouldn't have hidden agendas).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                I don't really follow... I assume that "workstation" means desktop, which means that they'll just have a cloud and server spins, which makes sense. So what's the reported drama about? Updates?
                They aren't spins. Cloud and server are purpose built and don't share much user space (the might only share ring 0 but I'm not sure).

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                • #9
                  * post to subscribe *

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                  • #10
                    I'm excited!

                    I've been using Fedora on and off since day one, then as my main OS since Fedora 12. I have followed and enjoyed ever single thing Fedora has done Except the whole Gnome 3 issue.

                    Although Gnome 3 is much better now than it has ever been, I have been swayed by the "Normal" desktop of Cinnamon.

                    When I saw the announcement of the new direction Fedora is going to take, I was very excited. I see some great potential in it.

                    However, I was very excited about the potential of Gnome 3, and that only proved to be a huge heart break.

                    I guess we'll see what the future holds... I'm hoping for an amazing revolution or I might actually abandon Fedora for Arch or Debian.

                    Hoping in Fedora though.

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                    • #11
                      My view is that Fedora should become a distribution suitable for regular users, that is a stable release distribution like Debian, openSUSE, and *buntus.

                      1. At present, Debian has few maintainers, which has as a result, many bugs not getting fixed.

                      2. openSUSE is OK I guess, but I think it has some UI bloat, like YaST 2.

                      Also YaST's graphical update program, is equivalent to "zypper --patch" terminal updater program , instead of "zypper up" (or "zypper dup"). That is, it installs only bugfixes, and not newer versions, available in the normal repositories.

                      I think this YaST's graphical update program, is the *only* openSUSE GUI update program, for all of the supported graphical environments, except GNOME (myself prefer LXDE).

                      This means, a user has to run "sudo zypper up" (or "sudo zypper dup", when using additional repositories) manually, to get the latest program versions.


                      3. Ubuntu is going its own way with Mir, and Unity 8.

                      So I think there is some space, for a Red Hat, home-user oriented distribution.
                      Last edited by developer; 01-25-2014, 06:08 PM.

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                      • #12
                        I do not know why the text appeared in a column style. Perhaps it is caused by the numbering I used.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by developer View Post
                          2. openSUSE is OK I guess, but I think it has some UI bloat, like YaST 2.

                          Also YaST's graphical update program, is equivalent to "zypper --patch" terminal updater program , instead of "zypper up" (or "zypper dup"). That is, it installs only bugfixes, and not newer versions, available in the normal repositories.

                          I think this YaST's graphical update program, is the *only* openSUSE GUI update program, for all of the supported graphical environments, except GNOME (myself prefer LXDE).

                          This means, a user has to run "sudo zypper up" (or "sudo zypper dup", when using additional repositories) manually, to get the latest program versions.
                          Yeah... no. http://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Software...ating_software
                          And there's also a packagekit backend for libzypp so you can use packagekit too.

                          /edit:
                          Also... first you say there's UI bloat and then complain that there's no UI for it?! And "sudo zypper up" is always the command you want to use for update (doesn't matter how many repositories you have). "sudo zypper dup" is for upgrading between releases.
                          Last edited by droste; 01-25-2014, 07:17 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by droste View Post
                            Yeah... no. http://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Software...ating_software
                            And there's also a packagekit backend for libzypp so you can use packagekit too.
                            Regarding YaST Online Update, I can not find any "Package" menu in openSUSE 13.1.

                            Originally posted by droste
                            Also... first you say there's UI bloat and then complain that there's no UI for it?!
                            With "bloat", I mean some openSUSE YaST configuration options, that overlap with similar ones, provided by a desktop environment, like "Sound", "System Keyboard Layout", "Date and Time", "Language", "Network Settings", etc.

                            Originally posted by droste
                            And "sudo zypper up" is always the command you want to use for update (doesn't matter how many repositories you have). "sudo zypper dup" is for upgrading between releases.
                            "zypper dup" is needed when you use third party repositories, at least when you add them.

                            But I think YaST Online Update, needs an option equivalent to "zypper up", at least. You provided a link, that this was the case previously, but I can't find such an option in openSUSE 13.1 (I am using the 64-bit version).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by developer View Post
                              Regarding YaST Online Update, I can not find any "Package" menu in openSUSE 13.1.
                              Not the online update, but the normal software managment. Online update is only for security fixes as stated in the URL.
                              kdesu /sbin/yast2 sw_single <-- this one.

                              Originally posted by developer View Post
                              With "bloat", I mean some openSUSE YaST configuration options, that overlap with similar ones, provided by a desktop environment, like "Sound", "System Keyboard Layout", "Date and Time", "Language", "Network Settings", etc.
                              Well yes, but you are not forced to use them. I for one never touched any of these and they are also system-wide configurations instead of user-wide as the one the DEs provide.

                              Originally posted by developer View Post
                              "zypper dup" is needed when you use third party repositories, at least when you add them.

                              But I think YaST Online Update, needs an option equivalent to "zypper up", at least. You provided a link, that this was the case previously, but I can't find such an option in openSUSE 13.1 (I am using the 64-bit version).
                              "zypper dup" is short for "distribution upgrade". You should only use this if you, well, upgrade your distribution: http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:System_upgrade usually this is way too big hammer for the small nail you have. If you want to replace a single package with a version from a 3rd party repo I would recommend to only replace this package and it's dependencies selecting the version in yast2: http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Vendor_change_update . Otherwise, yes, you are correct. "sudo zypper dup --from [repository]" will replace all packages with the one in the 3rd party repository.

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