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Fedora Users Still Have Mixed Feelings Over DNF

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  • Fedora Users Still Have Mixed Feelings Over DNF

    Phoronix: Fedora Users Still Have Mixed Feelings Over DNF

    While DNF isn't the default package manager on Fedora Linux installations until at least Fedora 22, there's still many mixed reservations about this intended replacement to Yum...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTU2MTE

  • #2
    Duke Nukem Forever.

    What has been read cannot be unread.

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    • #3
      I'm confused, why would there be a command that removes all kernels including the one you're using?

      And if somebody supplies a good enough reason for that, why couldn't this effect be achieved by adding dnf remove all-kernels or dnf remove kernel --all as a command/flag?

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      • #4
        This site is truly horrible to navigate! I tried to find a link to the official website of DNF, but all I see are links to other phoronix pages. It's like I'm stuck in this stink hole.

        Please, consider a different approach to getting millions of hits. I might even consider whitelisting this site in ad-block.

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        • #5
          DNF is racing parlance for "Did Not Finish".

          Oh dear.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
            I'm confused, why would there be a command that removes all kernels including the one you're using?
            And if somebody supplies a good enough reason for that, why couldn't this effect be achieved by adding dnf remove all-kernels or dnf remove kernel --all as a command/flag?
            I don't know. The syntax could very well make sense when learning DNF from scratch, but if it's dangerous for yum users, then I can't see why the dev(s) wouldn't add a safeguard (at least temporarily). Maybe they think those extra 2 if statements would be inelegant or "add bloat" or something...

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            • #7
              I've tried it a few times

              I've tried DNF around the stages of the beta release of Fedora 20 in my rawhide install, when I used it it was just less functional and if course a little slow because it's a Python tool and not a c program, but to me I feel everything is more slow in a fedora/rpm based distro so having it be slow is something you just get used to and not care about in the Fedora world.

              One thing that may be the thing to not have people move over & try it are there's been so much feature churn in Fedora. So yum as the base package manager was one thing that was always there and something you could always rely on, with this... it I guess it feels like a carpet being pulled out from under you because its been there for so long so it may just be a resistant to change sort of effect.

              One thing that DNF needs to absolutely have is speed and the multi-mirror/fastest mirror capability. It may have that ability now but I haven't tried it for a month or two. But based on my time with it, that was the one plugin to yum that made it worth using over DNF.

              Also, I imagine having your package manager be a Python program that's dependant on a working python VM is a huge problem and a huge dependency since for some ungodly reason the RPM distros are using in companies quite often. So needing a python VM to do any package management is bloat versus what it should be (a C/C++ program or any of the statically compiled&linked) programming language based to have no external dependencies in order to be executed.
              Last edited by HeavensRevenge; 01-06-2014, 08:38 AM.

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              • #8
                I remember when Fedora was fun. All this NIH bullshit these days is annoying the crap out of me. As if systemd wasn't bad enough.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                  I'm confused, why would there be a command that removes all kernels including the one you're using?

                  And if somebody supplies a good enough reason for that, why couldn't this effect be achieved by adding dnf remove all-kernels or dnf remove kernel --all as a command/flag?
                  I think it's not intentionally that way, but that "yum remove ${EXPRESSION}" removes every package whose name starts with ${EXPRESSION}. The case would be that they hardcoded an exception if that's "kernel" to avoid removing the newest one, and DNF doesn't.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DarthOobit View Post
                    I remember when Fedora was fun. All this NIH bullshit these days is annoying the crap out of me. As if systemd wasn't bad enough.
                    Libsolv is not NIH - Its from OpenSUSE. The lower levels are being consolidated behind hawkey and libsolv which have multidistro support. DNF is a sort of rearchitecting of Yum to work with these new libraries.

                    The only issue is how past behaviour is handled. If upstream doesnt want this behaviour of protecting specific packages, I am sure that before it becomes default Fedora will need to provide a plugin that provides that behaviour (not deleting existing kernel, protecting specific packages).

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                    • #11
                      The complaints about the name may seem trivial, but that goes both ways, it's entirely trivial to change the name to something less crappy. So why not just do it?

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                      • #12
                        So, anyone knows what's wrong with yum that couldn't ever be fixed and so the only possible solution was to write a new package management program?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by devius View Post
                          So, anyone knows what's wrong with yum that couldn't ever be fixed and so the only possible solution was to write a new package management program?
                          Nothing. From what I understand (as a non-Fedora/Yum user) is that DNF is an evolutionary step rather than a revolutionary one. It uses a back-end that is supported by several distros among other things (greater feature set... eventually, etc)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
                            The complaints about the name may seem trivial, but that goes both ways, it's entirely trivial to change the name to something less crappy. So why not just do it?
                            The name's only temporary. It's gonna be renamed to 'yum' when its made the default.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by devius View Post
                              So, anyone knows what's wrong with yum that couldn't ever be fixed and so the only possible solution was to write a new package management program?
                              DNF is a fork of yum, it wasn't written from scratch. It rips out the custom library that the yum developers originally wrote and uses libsolv which is a library that Suse wrote for dependency management. It also re-architects a few things, like allowing for multiple simultaneously downloads.

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