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Sabayon 13.08 Brings Systemd By Default, UEFI Fixes

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  • Sabayon 13.08 Brings Systemd By Default, UEFI Fixes

    Phoronix: Sabayon 13.08 Brings Systemd By Default, UEFI Fixes

    The Gentoo-based Sabayon Linux distribution is yet another open-source operating system doing an update in the past few days after openSUSE, Mageia, Elementary, and even OpenIndiana...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQzMzk

  • #2
    That's pretty interesting, nice to see some public support for systemd, even if it's not from upstream Gentoo. I still use only systemd in the actual Gentoo, but the reaction to that when I mention this fact on their IRC and such can be unpleasant at times...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
      That's pretty interesting, nice to see some public support for systemd, even if it's not from upstream Gentoo. I still use only systemd in the actual Gentoo, but the reaction to that when I mention this fact on their IRC and such can be unpleasant at times...
      You will probably never receive a positive reaction to using systemd on Gentoo. Gentoo forked udev for a reason. If they actually wanted to use systemd they wouldn't have done so.

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      • #4
        Well, to be honest, "they" is not Gentoo as a whole, but rather some of the Gentoo developers. There are people who package systemd and the unit files for the programs in Gentoo, too. They're just keeping low and quiet

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
          Well, to be honest, "they" is not Gentoo as a whole, but rather some of the Gentoo developers. There are people who package systemd and the unit files for the programs in Gentoo, too. They're just keeping low and quiet
          Well you did go into their IRC room, you'll never get an accurate representation of most things by doing that. Most users don't/won't use IRC. I abandoned it awhile ago because the only people who seem to join those rooms are trolls or people who believe if you don't do it their way you're doing it wrong.

          Gentoo is about choice and building the system the way you want. The developers are probably going to stay clear of systemd because they developed openrc. And since the systemd developers merged udev into it, the Gentoo devs probably felt it was a move to make systemd the only init system people can move forward with. I also don't think they liked where udev was going, but that is something else.

          I remember hearing a backlash from Arch users when they made the switch. They did it pretty quick and I don't believe that all the packages had systemd support either.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by migizi View Post
            Well you did go into their IRC room, you'll never get an accurate representation of most things by doing that. Most users don't/won't use IRC. I abandoned it awhile ago because the only people who seem to join those rooms are trolls or people who believe if you don't do it their way you're doing it wrong.
            The Gentoo IRC room is one of the liveliest places around, so I don't think you're right about that. Although it does seem that it's less biased on their forums. Also, speaking of bias against systemd, I've seen one of the Sunrise maintainers reject an ebuild due to it not including an OpenRC script, and put it very aggressively, without any justification (the submitter did end up writing an OpenRC script for the program to get it accepted, but if I was the submitter, I would definitely have objected).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
              The Gentoo IRC room is one of the liveliest places around, so I don't think you're right about that. Although it does seem that it's less biased on their forums. Also, speaking of bias against systemd, I've seen one of the Sunrise maintainers reject an ebuild due to it not including an OpenRC script, and put it very aggressively, without any justification (the submitter did end up writing an OpenRC script for the program to get it accepted, but if I was the submitter, I would definitely have objected).
              It's a valid point though. The fact is that people like me will -never- use systemd. And I can't wait for a stable replacement for udev. Hell, I'm stuck on an ancient version of udev because it's still the most stable. It's time for something better.

              As far as plugnplay, ease of use, (not really driver availability though) I still consider windows 2000/XP to be the very best. Linux has a long way to go. There is no existing system available on linux as easy to use. And I'm talking at least 13 year old technology that Linux isnt anywhere near catching up to. Device management should be handled entirely in the kernel. Userspace will never be adequate.
              Last edited by duby229; 08-12-2013, 07:16 PM.

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              • #8
                In case you're wondering why systemd is such a hot topic in Gentoo, besides systemd itself, it's because the developers packaged a file called functions.sh with the OpenRC ebuild. By removing OpenRC from your system, you're removing this file, and it'll break a lot of things on your system. Because of this, not a whole lot of developers are willing to provide support for removing OpenRC in favor of systemd, however, someone is working on it.

                https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                  It's a valid point though. The fact is that people like me will -never- use systemd. And I can't wait for a stable replacement for udev. Hell, I'm stuck on an ancient version of udev because it's still the most stable. It's time for something better.
                  I have nothing against OpenRC, in fact it was probably the best init system at the time. It's just that systemd is better now. I can understand the Gentoo developers wanting to keep OpenRC around, because they need it for Gentoo/FreeBSD (since systemd heavily relies on the Linux kernel capabilities and is LGPL, thus almost certainly will never run on BSDs), but one would expect them to act maturely and give both init systems the same amount of respect.

                  Originally posted by Vax456 View Post
                  In case you're wondering why systemd is such a hot topic in Gentoo, besides systemd itself, it's because the developers packaged a file called functions.sh with the OpenRC ebuild. By removing OpenRC from your system, you're removing this file, and it'll break a lot of things on your system. Because of this, not a whole lot of developers are willing to provide support for removing OpenRC in favor of systemd, however, someone is working on it.

                  https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219
                  There isn't much of a problem with running systemd and keeping OpenRC files around for compatibility purposes. It's just a bit of unnecessary clutter, but it's fine. To me it seems that the biased viewpoint is mostly due to NIH...

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                  • #10
                    systemd does not deserve any respect… It’s very complex (supposedly to make things work automagically, but guess what… it does _not_ work automagically), complicated to use (writing unit files for everything is not my idea of fun), and broken (restart crashing daemons every second? check! Stall startup or shutdown indefinitely? check! Make it impossible for end-users to access their core dumps? check!); it does not solve any problem (as far as end-users are concerned at least), and it changes behaviour at each release, and changes system settings that it shouldn’t.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stqn View Post
                      systemd does not deserve any respect… It’s very complex (supposedly to make things work automagically, but guess what… it does _not_ work automagically), complicated to use (writing unit files for everything is not my idea of fun), and broken (restart crashing daemons every second? check! Stall startup or shutdown indefinitely? check! Make it impossible for end-users to access their core dumps? check!); it does not solve any problem (as far as end-users are concerned at least), and it changes behaviour at each release, and changes system settings that it shouldn’t.

                      I don't understand why people hate systemd? To the average non-power desktop user (On Arch) it works flawlessly for me anyways. It's a first post, may seem like a troll, but seriously a lot of anger seems to be directed by personal bias, misinformation, and hear say based on early adoption attempts. I don't speak for everyone but the fact I'm not even the slightest bit aware of what systemd is doing, for the desktop that's a win.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                        There isn't much of a problem with running systemd and keeping OpenRC files around for compatibility purposes. It's just a bit of unnecessary clutter, but it's fine. To me it seems that the biased viewpoint is mostly due to NIH...
                        It's true that it's mostly clutter that doesn't really interfere with anything. However, I think having more control over the init system in Gentoo would be a welcome change for all sorts of users. chroot's, for example, don't need an init system. So why bother pulling in OpenRC when all you need is portage? It would be nice to keep the amount of packages installed on a as-needed basis.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vax456 View Post
                          It's true that it's mostly clutter that doesn't really interfere with anything. However, I think having more control over the init system in Gentoo would be a welcome change for all sorts of users. chroot's, for example, don't need an init system. So why bother pulling in OpenRC when all you need is portage? It would be nice to keep the amount of packages installed on a as-needed basis.
                          I definitely agree. A few other areas in gentoo suffer from this same problem. It's getting more and more difficult to weed out unnecessary dependencies. And in some cases it's impossible.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jonjolt View Post
                            I don't understand why people hate systemd? To the average non-power desktop user (On Arch) it works flawlessly for me anyways. It's a first post, may seem like a troll, but seriously a lot of anger seems to be directed by personal bias, misinformation, and hear say based on early adoption attempts. I don't speak for everyone but the fact I'm not even the slightest bit aware of what systemd is doing, for the desktop that's a win.
                            I wish I could say that (I’m also using Arch Linux).
                            BTW I may have exagerated a bit with my “it changes behaviour at each release”, but I tried to stay objective as far as the rest is concerned…

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                            • #15
                              I have fundamental disagreements with that guy.... grrr!

                              EDIT: He starts his speech off talking about cooperating with everybody else, but it damn sure looks like forcing his shit on everybody else.
                              Last edited by duby229; 08-13-2013, 01:55 PM.

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