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Preview: Ubuntu's Performance Over The Past Two Years

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  • #31
    B0$$-Troll

    Originally posted by JS987 View Post
    It will likely contain less malware. No additional patches made by NSA.
    Don't listen to BO$$, he is a troll.
    Compiling locally makes sense and has great benefits, but not due to extreme compiler-flags, but because you have control over how many dependencies are pulled in.

    BO$$ doesn't know what he is talking about and has a questionable standpoint when it comes to GNU/Linux. Don't listen to him if you don't want to be confused .

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    • #32
      Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
      Yeah let's all start compiling our own stuff. You probably would call that progress. Fuck .deb or .rpm just give us the sources, we'll deal with it....
      thats how we use to do it on Linux

      few linux's do any more gentoo is one of them

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      • #33
        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        Yeah let's all start compiling our own stuff. You probably would call that progress. Fuck .deb or .rpm just give us the sources, we'll deal with it....
        The only one here with a white vs. black view of the thing is you. Nobody forces you to avoid binary, out of the box distros. It has a benefit on usability, and nobody denies it. It would be wise of you to admit the benefits of the other side of the coin, just because the usability of binary distros outweight the advantages of using a custom built one for you and for general users.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
          Yeah let's all start compiling our own stuff. You probably would call that progress. Fuck .deb or .rpm just give us the sources, we'll deal with it....
          No. Let's all start ignoring uninformed and illogical garbage that trolls like you keep spamming us with.

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          • #35
            Inform yourself

            Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
            Yeah let's all start compiling our own stuff. You probably would call that progress. Fuck .deb or .rpm just give us the sources, we'll deal with it....
            For Gentoo, we have ebuilds respectively.

            Why don't you inform yourself before giving unqualified responses and make hideous claims?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
              thats how we use to do it on Linux
              I remember those days.

              It was awful.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                Nothing black or white just that pushing Gentoo and saying it's more flexible than Ubuntu is just misguided. The trouble with linux is that it must shed this image of 'compiling your own kernel ftw' attitude if it ever wants to get over the 1% market share. This is what people know about linux and pushing for this image is really counterproductive. This elitist attitude is really annoying for outsiders and I'm seeing it on so many websites 'promoting' linux. This attitude when something doesn't work well fuck you go learn C and fix it your damn self. What's so hard about compiling a custom kernel after all? Stupid noobs. Back in my time we used to program with the soldiering iron not like kids these days with their noob proof Java and shit....
                No. From moment zero in this thread, it was considered optional, and that's how it should be. If we want to ever go past the 1%, yeah, one must be able to have things working out of the box. But if some user wants to build things by himself, it's good that he can, and can give benefits. Being able to use things out of the box is not the same as being forced to use them that way.
                Also, there are situations where you really need to build things. I *needed* to build things to get KMS on Via, and will need to for a few more kernel releases.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handboo...?part=2&chap=1

                  Yep. I can see the 660 millions of Windows 7 moving on to Gentoo riiiight about now.... Gentoo is a fucking joke of a distro. Please stop promoting it. Do us all a favor.
                  Nobody is pretending most users should switch to it. In fact, its main promoter on this thread stated he wouldn't state the nonsense someone should switch to it if they don't like having to read manuals for it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handboo...?part=2&chap=1

                    Yep. I can see the 660 millions of Windows 7 moving on to Gentoo riiiight about now.... Gentoo is a fucking joke of a distro. Please stop promoting it. Do us all a favor.
                    I use Gentoo, am quite happy with it and the fact that it annoys you is just the icing on the proverbial cake. Honestly, if compiling stuff and knowing C are turn offs for bell ends like you, it's hard not to see them as advantages.

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                    • #40
                      Plain wrong

                      Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                      I'm not annoyed that you use Gentoo. Hell you can use MS-DOS for all I care. It's when you people start coming out of the caves and start saying bullshit like Gentoo is faster that another distro (usually Ubuntu because you hate Canonical) and more flexible without any kind of proof. You're asking Michael to test Ubuntu vs Gentoo? Why? Gentoo doesn't exist! Why are you trying to gain more visibility for such a bullshit distro? Do you realize that somebody coming to these forums (or other forums that has people like you on it) will be forever put off from Linux if they install Gentoo? Think about it. Somebody comes in and reads that Gentoo is way faster than Ubuntu. They install Gentoo. Shit this is horrid. Back to Windows. Without realizing that Gentoo doesn't represent Linux. Not at all. You're trying to make it look cool just so that you feel special by using something that is a niche in a niche (Linux).

                      The argument doesn't necessarily apply only to Gentoo but to other bullshit distros for total nerds like Arch, Slackware and others. There's always somebody on a forum that says how superior their Gentoo, Arch or whatever is so superior to anything Ubuntu or Suse and how in love they are with their system and how Ubuntu is for losers who don't want to learn C and compiler flags. Get this: most people are put off by having to know these things!

                      The damage caused by people like you is great and you don't even realize it. Do you really think that by saying how complex Gentoo is more people will try linux or less?

                      And no, having to run ./configure, make and make install isn't progress. It's horrible. Makefiles are satan's way of holding linux back. Those damn things are from '83 ffs. So much for your progressive and flexible distro....
                      You miss three things:
                      1. Gentoo _is_ faster and we gave you good reasons why.
                      2. Using Gentoo doesn't require you to configure and make the software. I told you about Portage, which does that for you automatically.
                      3. I made it pretty clear that Gentoo is only suitable for a small group of users. If you forgot that, you should re-read my previous replies. You cling to this point and accuse us for damaging the GNU/Linux-community, just trying to distract from the real point of the discussion: That Gentoo _is_ in fact faster than Ubuntu.

                      So, please tell me: Why are you so active wasting your time trying to silence our voices?
                      Unlike your FUD and invalid points, our arguments are valid. You seem to have a hard time refuting them.
                      Last edited by frign; 07-14-2013, 08:30 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by juanrga View Post
                        I am interested in Gentoo, but I couldn't find benchmarks comparing it to recent versions of binary-based distros as Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora...
                        Do you know how many performance you get from going from a generic AMD_64 to compiling with optimizations? The own Gentoo site recommend the distro for owners of 8-cores, but does not give any detail on why.
                        There will be no/small difference in 90% cases. There are some benchmark results on Phoronix like these:
                        http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...izations&num=2
                        http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...cc_48_og&num=2
                        http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...ore_avx2&num=2
                        Last edited by JS987; 07-14-2013, 09:27 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Optimization-levels vs USE-Flags

                          Originally posted by JS987 View Post
                          There will be no/small difference in 90% cases. There are some benchmark results on Phoronix like these:
                          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...izations&num=2
                          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...cc_48_og&num=2
                          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...ore_avx2&num=2
                          These are just _optimization-levels_. They make software unstable if used excessively!
                          They don't make much difference, either. The USE-flags do!
                          It's about what you include into your binary, and not only how much you optimize it.

                          That's why Gentoo is faster; because you can influence the number of dependencies in the package-manager (Portage) and actually compile it into your program. This is not possible in normal binary-based-distributions.

                          This is also the reason why the benchmarks you linked to are _irrelevant_ if you want to discuss Gentoo's overall performance.
                          Last edited by frign; 07-14-2013, 09:59 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Some education for you

                            Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                            Yes it's faster because you said so. Perhaps you get 3 times the framerate of Nexuiz because you compiled locally. Hahaha! The radeon driver is on par with fglrx on Gentoo because you compiled locally I'm sure. Compiling locally makes everything faster because I said so! Wah wah Gentoo isa faaaaaaaster! Ubuntu sucks! Wah wah!
                            It's not faster, because I said so, but because it _is_.

                            This fact can be directly derived from the nature of distribution:
                            Ubuntu is a finished product full of software you might never need. Gentoo on the other hand is a custom product, an operating system you nearly build from scratch.
                            The less software is loaded, the more resources are available to power software like Xonotic (Nexuiz has been proprietary for half a decade now, dude). Same applies to the OpenGL-stack, which in itself can pull in a lot of dependencies.

                            I won't claim it will be 200% faster on Gentoo, but it will be faster, because the nature of a pre-distributed operating system like Ubuntu is to be slower than a custom one.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JS987 View Post
                              If new stable version of software is released after new Ubuntu release, you can wait up to 6 months or you have to create own deb package which is hard or impossible because of dependencies.
                              Red Hat is used by companies which don't mind outdated software. Many of them still use Windows XP.
                              Ubuntu has this nice ppa and backport system, so you can make anything you want cutting edge, even to the point of nightly builds. I run xorg edgers and the 3.10 kernel on 13.04.

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                              • #45
                                Then let me explain it to you

                                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                                Which makes me wonder why don't they distribute the code and compile locally for absolutely everything on all other distros?
                                Because then we would have Gentoo more or less.

                                Oh right. Because the performance difference is usually negligible. Do you really think that having more .so files on the disk will make your system slower?
                                The performance difference is bigger than you might think. Let me explain it to you:

                                Compiling identical binaries linked to identical shared libraries doesn't make a big difference. You are right! It's a myth, that excessive CFLAGS make a noticeable difference. The opposite is true: The higher you go (-O0 -> -O1 -> -O2 -> -O3 -> -Ofast), the more you risk breaking your program and having runtime-issues (segmentation faults, memory-leaks and even slower execution).

                                You assume, that when you're using Gentoo, you're compiling the same code as the code binaries are based on under binary-based distributions. This is false and a common misunderstanding:
                                In fact, when you "emerge" a program in Gentoo (using Portage), a set of package-specific USE-flags define, which features should be included into a given program.
                                Let me give you GIMP as an example.

                                The following USE-flags are available:
                                {aalib alsa altivec bzip2 curl dbus debug doc exif gnome jpeg jpeg2k lcms mmx mng pdf png postscript python smp sse svg tiff udev webkit wmf xpm}}
                                When you distribute a binary-distribution, you are forced to select most or even all of those flags.
                                Look at webkit for instance, which is only needed for the help-browser plugin and blows up the GIMP-binary by around 10MB. If you install GIMP on a binary-based distribution, you are forced to install webkit as a dependency, as you have to follow the decision of the package-maintainer who included webkit in the build-process.
                                Starting GIMP will take longer, as the webkit-engine has to be initialized first (among other things).
                                This rule also applies to the other features, which can blow up a program considerably (e.g. alsa, gnome, ...). If you don't use Gnome, you don't need Gnome-support in your program. And why do you need ALSA-support (sound) for an image-editor?
                                You don't even need to set those flags per package. You can also disable gnome globally for every program.

                                I hope you get the idea what I mean. Just looking at the USE-flags-system, it becomes clear, what the advantages are.
                                And I didn't even start with the great slot-system and the possibility to directly pull in software from SVN through Portage.

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexuiz doesn't seem so proprietary to me.
                                Originally posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexuiz
                                On March 1, 2010, it was revealed a company known as Illfonic purchased the rights to the name Nexuiz, and a proprietary license to the source-code, the details of any potential legal conflicts are not yet known.
                                On March 22, 2010, the fork Xonotic of Nexuiz was announced. Many of the core contributors and community members of Nexuiz moved to this new project as they felt that sale of the name Nexuiz mishandles the original project.

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