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LXDE-Based Lubuntu Will Not Ship Mir Display Server

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  • #11
    Mir-Wayland compatibility?

    There is a question I've been meaning to ask, and this is as good a time as any...

    Is it possible that applications could be written so that they run on both Mir and Wayland? I don't mean via XMir and XWayland, I mean could a native app for Mir work on Wayland, and vice-versa. Or are developers going to be forced to redo their apps for the specific window manager?

    Thanks in advance for replies.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Candide View Post
      There is a question I've been meaning to ask, and this is as good a time as any...

      Is it possible that applications could be written so that they run on both Mir and Wayland? I don't mean via XMir and XWayland, I mean could a native app for Mir work on Wayland, and vice-versa. Or are developers going to be forced to redo their apps for the specific window manager?

      Thanks in advance for replies.
      Whatever Toolkit they are written against will have to support both if they want to run on both. So far every toolkit has said "Screw you Canonical" and expressed explicit support for Wayland and explicitly denied Mir support. Canonical said they may maintain patches for Qt and GTK separately and just patch their programs every build so you can still write against the toolkits.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Ericg View Post
        Whatever Toolkit they are written against will have to support both if they want to run on both. So far every toolkit has said "Screw you Canonical" and expressed explicit support for Wayland and explicitly denied Mir support. Canonical said they may maintain patches for Qt and GTK separately and just patch their programs every build so you can still write against the toolkits.
        I knew Gtk and KDE did that, but don't remember reading that Qt did, and my google-fu isn't good enough to find an article saying anything about upstream. Mind posting a link?

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        • #14
          Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
          I knew Gtk and KDE did that, but don't remember reading that Qt did, and my google-fu isn't good enough to find an article saying anything about upstream. Mind posting a link?
          KDE is a desktop environment. Guess what toolkit it uses.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by n3wu53r View Post
            KDE is a desktop environment. Guess what toolkit it uses.
            But KDE doesn't has full control over QT, but the commercial organization that bought it from trolltech/nokia or whatever

            Edit: the company is called digia, and I guess it doesn't matter to them if used under Mir or Wayland, they just want to make some profit from it.
            Last edited by TheOne; 06-29-2013, 11:00 PM.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by n3wu53r View Post
              KDE is a desktop environment. Guess what toolkit it uses.
              KDE uses the KDE-Toolkit, which is a super-set of Qt. I should have worded my reply above more carefully...

              GTK has said Screw Mir (Which is an issue for XFCE)
              Qt doesn't have an official stance YET.
              EFL has said Screw Mir.
              KDE (and by extension KDE-libs) has said Screw Mir.

              Qt just has to make an official statement and Mir's fate is almost sealed.. maintaining out of tree patch deltas gets complicated, even for large companies.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
                They want to avoid the use of compositing, and both native Mir and native Wayland require compositing, and both XMir and Xwayland are useless as a desktop solution (useless as not giving nothing that a plain X.org doesn't give you). And this is, as pointed out, because they aim to low resources computers. Compositing has better performance on a lot of use cases, but it also leads to higher memory use.

                Can I assume you aren't familiar with the Wayland backend for RPI?
                The performance, from the videos is better than it was on X.

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                • #18
                  All Ubuntu derivates should group and make a distrubtion.
                  They should ship an installer like Suse where you can select your DE (which pulls the setups of that are currently distrubtions).

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                    KDE uses the KDE-Toolkit, which is a super-set of Qt. I should have worded my reply above more carefully...

                    GTK has said Screw Mir (Which is an issue for XFCE)
                    Qt doesn't have an official stance YET.
                    EFL has said Screw Mir.
                    KDE (and by extension KDE-libs) has said Screw Mir.

                    Qt just has to make an official statement and Mir's fate is almost sealed.. maintaining out of tree patch deltas gets complicated, even for large companies.


                    "Currently, there is no plan to support the Mir display server.

                    The gtk team would obviously review patches for it, like we do for other backends; we'd obviously need some guarantee that the code would be maintained, with bug fixes as well as updates when the internals of GDK change due to refactoring or API additions.

                    Personally, I think any effort at replacing X11 should go towards Wayland; in any case, patches and resources are welcome."

                    You translate that to GTK has said Screw Mir *eyeroll*

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by DDF420 View Post
                      "Currently, there is no plan to support the Mir display server.

                      The gtk team would obviously review patches for it, like we do for other backends; we'd obviously need some guarantee that the code would be maintained, with bug fixes as well as updates when the internals of GDK change due to refactoring or API additions.

                      Personally, I think any effort at replacing X11 should go towards Wayland; in any case, patches and resources are welcome."

                      You translate that to GTK has said Screw Mir *eyeroll*
                      No.. I translate Red Hat backing Wayland as GTK saying "Screw Mir." Red Hat doesn't have complete control over Wayland, but they have enough control and influence that if RH told the head devs to "forget" about pulling the patches or to "misplace" the links to the patches, I have little doubt that it'd happen.

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