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  • #16
    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    However, the professional market only uses legacy applications.
    Id be willing to bet RHEL8 will be Wayland based, or at least Wayland-optional... Gnome and KDE should have full Wayland support out in stable releases by then, so Fedora would have it, and the version of Fedora RHEL8 is based off of should have it then too.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by curaga View Post
      What makes you think the professional market will move to either, instead of staying on X for the next decade?
      Thats what gabe newell said, valve will do.

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      • #18
        Valve doesnt have any choice but to stick with X. If they move to Wayland they screw Canonical. If they move to Mir they screw everyone else. What's unfortunate is that if Mir never existed this wouldnt be an issue at all. There is already too much fragmentation. What Mir adds pushes it past a tipping point. Canonical should be forced to die. (yes, a.k.a murdered.)
        Last edited by duby229; 06-19-2013, 07:50 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
          Valve doesnt have any choice but to stick with X. If they move to Wayland they screw Canonical. If they move to Mir they screw everyone else. What's unfortunate is that if Mir never existed this wouldnt be an issue at all. There is already too much fragmentation. What Mir adds pushes it past a tipping point. Canonical should be forced to die. (yes, a.k.a murdered.)
          If Mir works the same way as Wayland... it may not have to be that way. If all Mir apps have to have a toolkit backing them, lets say Qt, and Qt supports both Mir and Wayland, then Valve could write their shit in Qt, and have it work on OS X, iOS, Android, Windows, and Linux (X/Mir/Wayland), and everyone would be golden.

          I write that knowing full well someone is going to point out a flaw on it in like 10seconds..

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ericg View Post
            If Mir works the same way as Wayland... it may not have to be that way. If all Mir apps have to have a toolkit backing them, lets say Qt, and Qt supports both Mir and Wayland, then Valve could write their shit in Qt, and have it work on OS X, iOS, Android, Windows, and Linux (X/Mir/Wayland), and everyone would be golden.

            I write that knowing full well someone is going to point out a flaw on it in like 10seconds..
            I never understood why Valve insisted on writing steam directly against the X api, rather than using a toolkit. It's going to cause them pain whatever happens with wayland and mir now.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
              I never understood why Valve insisted on writing steam directly against the X api, rather than using a toolkit. It's going to cause them pain whatever happens with wayland and mir now.
              If that is indeed the case, then all this ranting I've been doing about fragmentation was pointless and wrong. Please somebody give me proof that my ranting was indeed pointless and wrong. Not many times have I wished that I was wrong, but this is certainly one of them.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                I never understood why Valve insisted on writing steam directly against the X api, rather than using a toolkit. It's going to cause them pain whatever happens with wayland and mir now.

                they'll prob rewrite against SDL2 since they hired the main dev of it

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                • #23
                  I think that nowdays many companies plan to stay with X no matter what will happen with Wayland and Mir, but when Wayland will start to show the big advantages against X, many people will change their mind.
                  Wayland is asyncronous by design, no blocking (only the client that suffers a problem stop to rendering), and all the others advantages that all know by the previous articles.

                  Yestarday I was reading on Mertin's blog (Kwin mainteiner) that with wayland he can debug Kwin inside the development session, instead collect debug's info by a different vt process. He said that this issue boring him by years.
                  That surprise me a lot. Probably, during the wayland adoption process, we will discover many more advantages that are not obvious just reading the architecture.

                  About Valve, why stay on X if you have a better choice?
                  When will be avaiable the binary blobs for Wayland, if you care about performance, if you care about a "every-frame-is-perfect" (each frame have a timestamp), if you care about a modern input system, if you care about an asyncronous display server, if you care about avoiding stupid bottleneck, why still stay on X if you have a so valid alternative?
                  Probably, even a legacy program can run better on xwayland than X, at the end of the day. :-)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                    Valve doesnt have any choice but to stick with X. If they move to Wayland they screw Canonical. If they move to Mir they screw everyone else. What's unfortunate is that if Mir never existed this wouldnt be an issue at all. There is already too much fragmentation. What Mir adds pushes it past a tipping point. Canonical should be forced to die. (yes, a.k.a murdered.)
                    SDL3 have to support Wayland AND Mir anyway. Since Valve applications is SDL-based what the problem for Valve to support Wayland and Mir?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                      SDL3 have to support Wayland AND Mir anyway. Since Valve applications is SDL-based what the problem for Valve to support Wayland and Mir?
                      No it does not have to. It can just support Wayland because why support a one-distro solution...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dee. View Post
                        No it does not have to. It can just support Wayland because why support a one-distro solution...
                        You know, "Ubuntu is our favorite version of Linux", and SDL-developer is Valve employee, so...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                          You know, "Ubuntu is our favorite version of Linux", and SDL-developer is Valve employee, so...
                          Well, of course. Valve still needs to keep a solid marketing front. I'm pretty sure at least that much is obvious. The dumbass shit that Canonical is doing, I'm also sure is pretty obvious. Sooner or later Canonicals partners are going to get worn thin.

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                          • #28
                            AMD supports RHEL and SLES and SLED.

                            Those are the distributions the important customers are using.

                            Ubuntu is just an afterthought.

                            Since neither RHEL nor SLES/SLED will use MIR.....

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by energyman View Post
                              AMD supports RHEL and SLES and SLED.
                              Those are the distributions the important customers are using.
                              Ubuntu is just an afterthought.
                              Since neither RHEL nor SLES/SLED will use MIR.....
                              According to tech. support list of supported/tested distributions published here. As you there, there is also Red Flag, openSUSE and Ubuntu.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by energyman View Post
                                AMD supports RHEL and SLES and SLED.

                                Those are the distributions the important customers are using.

                                Ubuntu is just an afterthought.
                                Not true. Dell is an important AMD customer, and thanks to Dell, Ubuntu receives support from the Catalyst driver.

                                Originally posted by energyman View Post
                                Since neither RHEL nor SLES/SLED will use MIR.....
                                Business sense dictates that Red Hat and SUSE will support what their customers demand. If customers demand Mir, why should distributors refuse?

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