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SphinUX OS Claims To Be ~150% Faster Than GNU/Linux

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  • Originally posted by SphinUXOS
    a guy named RMS 17 years ago, I believed in him, I supported him, and I will always support his idea
    Originally posted by SphinUXOS View Post
    We've decided to remove our gem from SourceForge as they were moaning about the licence; something that we couldn't care less about..
    You guys are full of shit.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
      You guys are full of shit.
      I have but one criticism. Shit, like the oxygen that aids its decomposition, is too useful to be wasted in that manner.

      But yes, ditching the Linux kernel (whose license they couldn't care less about) for their operating system that is the "evolution of the Linux kernel" is a ridiculous thing to say. What would they use for their fake flow charts then?

      What pathetic, and childish lies. If there was even an inkling of doubt about this project's lack of credibility, their own comments should eliminate it.

      Comment


      • DOS functionality was easly extended TSR(Terminate Stay Resident programs) there was extended memory managers EMM386(paged memory access),Networking(TCP/IP) netlink,ralink,netware etc.. , disk access cache (smartdrv), video card drivers/VESA2-3 emulation (ermm forget names)(mostly adding software layers over interrupts)+standalone software layer apps(dos4gw 386+ 32bit Extended Mode!!).. it was very pleasant coding times, and runtime library loading was possible but in code(viruses used this alot first loading itself and then actual program code)
        Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
        Am I sure? Yes. DOS is setting hardware interruptions for: disk, keyboard, CRT video screen ("text console").

        So even basic services like: "allocating extended 32 bit mode" has to be offered by your's application code. As DOS doesn't offer libSO loading (or .DLL from Windows world), the whole functionality you're missing you have to write (include as a static library inside your final .exe by your own). There are some logical operations that were implemented standard later in DOS versions, like: SmartDrv will offer RAM caching of your disk access, and interrupt 33 is offered for "mouse pointer movement notifications", but yeah, you don't have anything.

        I will put a small correction/note about this, when I said: "there is no video acceleration", theoretically it would be possible to have it, and the first 3Dfx Voodoo cards offered 3D drivers for DOS (for their Glide API, no OpenGL), but again the application will link this code statically as a part of the application's code.

        The web browser which I know from DOS, is Arachne, and in Wikipedia's page is written (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachne_%28web_browser%29 ) :
        Last edited by SunnyDrake; 07-02-2013, 12:58 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SphinUXOS View Post
          We've decided to remove our gem from SourceForge as they were moaning about the licence; something that we couldn't care less about.. We'll be ditching the linux kernel in the next release and maybe then we would consider uploading the project back to SourceForge
          Yeah, sure. For someone who sees RMS as some kind of role Model that sounds kida strange. I really would love to see with what you want to replace the linux Kernel. Maybe you will try to rebrand it some more. Or, as a RMS Fan, you use gnu hurd.
          Sourceforge has every right to mourn your Licence. You talk GPL and do the opposite.

          and by the way: your OS wasnt a gem. more like a pile of awesome debian turned to something, well, shitty (which is hard because IMHO debian is an awesome base)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SphinUXOS View Post
            We've decided to remove our gem from SourceForge as they were moaning about the licence; something that we couldn't care less about.. We'll be ditching the linux kernel in the next release and maybe then we would consider uploading the project back to SourceForge
            The kernel isn't the issue (or at least not the only issue). You distribute an ISO of binary files, many of which are under the GPL. You need to provide source for every single one of them.

            You are still distributing this ISO in violation of the GPL. I wonder what your idol RMS would say about that.
            Last edited by Scimmia; 07-02-2013, 01:58 AM.

            Comment


            • Unmodified sources are basically boring, noone looks at those - interesting are only the CHANGES. Maybe he switches from Linux to BSD then he would not need to provide the sources. But currently most apps/games are for Linux - also binary drivers are not available for BSD yet for AMD (maybe this changes with PS4, no idea). So if somebody creates an incompatible variant then the user base will be very small. Some systems may be fully optimized - BeOS was interesting when it was out as well and had similar performance improvements over other os - but was not really successfull - currently only os with a similar look exist. Marketing speech with extreme performance improvements that only a few ppl can really use will not lead to a system that lives long enough to remember the name.

              Comment


              • I am not breaking news here, but on that self made benchmark list, please change "Cost" to something like "Value". To say something is equall to GNU-Linux and is greater in Cost is in error. Changing the Cost value to Value would mean that you gain more value and make sence.

                ** I downloaded the ISO. Has anyone actually installed this? Running on this? Can someone do a phoronix benchmark and provide the lable so a bunch of us can run the benchmark test and compare?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by canezila View Post
                  I am not breaking news here, but on that self made benchmark list, please change "Cost" to something like "Value". To say something is equall to GNU-Linux and is greater in Cost is in error. Changing the Cost value to Value would mean that you gain more value and make sence.

                  ** I downloaded the ISO. Has anyone actually installed this? Running on this? Can someone do a phoronix benchmark and provide the lable so a bunch of us can run the benchmark test and compare?
                  It's a scam, read the thread.

                  Comment


                  • I know this might sound ridiculous, yet, I'll say it anyway ...

                    Well, as a "First try, first miss", we consider CheopX pretty much the thing that made us understand how faulty this project has been !!!

                    First I'll be introducing myself, since I don't like to hold the position of "The shady guy from Egypt"
                    I am just another *nix user, I don't care about licenses, all I care about is hacking stuff, that's it, I don't like the idea of "lots of users, no contribution"
                    the real name is "Ahmad Gaber", age 23, male obviously -or not-, and I am just the core dev for this project.
                    this project started as an "Egyptian Linux distribution" then we got crazy about adding flashy stuff, and we learned it -the hard way- that this is a BAD IDEA !!!

                    performance claims?! miss-translated, miss-understood, and definitely illogical -as it sounds-, yet, as the mentality of the Egyptian people -which is pretty much weird- isn't clear, it's always the more flashy and heavily modded the thing is -like a NY cab, but with the cab driver sayin' that he has PhD- the more it's considered valuable, it's silly yet what makes things worse, is when you say that your thing is 150% faster, it means that it's gooood, real gooooooood, it can do 150% stuff more on the same machine, silly, yet it's the "common guy's language".

                    miss-understood, stubborn and disappointed by the "FOSS reaction", we didn't have enough courage to admit mistakes "we never added malicious code, that's against our beliefs as Muslims"

                    but I'll admit them now, since I realize that only a man can admit his own mistakes:
                    1- We distributed binaries without the distribution of the sourcecode, only modified sources were released as we got used to the BSD way and didn't realize that it's not same for the GPL

                    2- We chose a hell of a PR manager, he's terrible, his advises got us to this situation

                    3- We targeted Egyptian "MS-Windows" users and forgot about the rest of the world

                    4- We lacked reliable source of documentation, and most of the docs released were made by fanatics from the community, and stuff like benchmarks were from a user's point of view, not technical at all

                    5- We tried to defend our situation by making things worse "being stubborn as the PR manager advised us"

                    6- We included every goddamned useful "or not" software to the distribution, that's good if you live in Egypt, and have trouble connecting to your 512kbps DSL line, that was the target audience after all

                    7- Terrible workmanship, that's it, I wont say a word more, it's horrible, I hate myself for this, it's embarrassing, so don't push me, I apologize for that

                    8- As self-centered as it might seem, we exaggerated our self-esteem, come on, it's the first time to see a true "FOSS movement in Egypt", that was a victory by itself, yet, it was a great mistake, as we still had a long shot before doing something useful to the FOSS community world-wide

                    9- The lack of documentation, got CheopX "which is a distribution" mixed up with the SphinUX OS, actually, SphinUX OS is a Standard Base Filesystem "StdBaseFS", an extended GNU/Linux base with core libraries, it's just a more standardized userspace with a modded Linux kernel.


                    "The list is open, please feel free to add more mistakes and we'll admit it if it's true"


                    As days went by, we attracted criticism, gained experience and felt the need for the "Real thing", and by that I mean, a clean fresh standardized start, so as an apology to the entire FOSS community, we have decided the following:

                    1- We'll not provide official builds of distributed Base Filesystems, only the stock StdBaseFS, anything else is not official and it's not related to SphinUX OS itself, that would be a ~200 MB bootable iso, with lots of fun for the hacker

                    2- Unfortunately, the speed by which Free software is growing, we wont be able to provide every single sourcecode for stock Debian packages in the repository "short on man power, unless someone feels like contributing as a maintainer, that would be awesome", yet, we'll provide sourcecode for every single StdBaseFS package "whether it's been modified or not", guess we're only distributing the StdBaseFS, therefore, it's okay "for now" to publish sourcecode for the distributed packages

                    3- We'd make the StdBaseFS "redistributable", by setting standards for the distribution process, providing libraries for the distribution process that might make things easy for a "bash scripter", also, we'd make it even easier by providing an easy-to-use utility " GUI only for now" that might help a novice user to build his own custom distribution in a pretty much clean way

                    4- We would not go behind the beta barrier unless we have solid documentation of our libraries and standards, that's a commitment

                    5- We already got rid of that PR guy -_- he's not related to PR in anyway, the community has no official spokesman for the moment, so feel free for any suggestions

                    6- We'll refrain from publishing any non-official documents, actually, we are not going to publish anything beside documentation for our libraries and standards, anything else is not ours, no crazy benchmarks from fanatics, and it's up to you to say whether it's a good software or not

                    7- We would listen, believe me, we are listening, so if you think anything should be done, it's up to you to talk

                    8- We would accept contributions from non-Arabic speaking users, anyone now can be part of this project, we'd use an English-only policy, just to help everyone get aboard

                    9- The next release of the StdBaseFS (1.1), will hold major upgrades, and to make things worse for those who might think changing the uts_namespace() values, we provided an interface and a daemon for changing it from the userspace "making /proc/sys/kernel writable by the userspace through the utscd (unix time support compatibility daemon), so, it's no longer named Linux through uname() , it's anything you wish, and of course we say it's Linux kernel, it's a cool feature to type uname and see the output saying "Joe_OS"
                    other features might sound related to the redistribution process, we wouldn't make a list before the docs are ready

                    10 - We've added ssl support to our servers, as a step towards a project portal, you'll like it once it's ready

                    11- We'd not start sentences with "we" anymore, it's ridiculous and self-centered


                    That's it for now, again, we apologize, and we would love to hear anything from you, things have changed, I promise

                    Thanks for your time, and sorry for my bad English

                    Comment


                    • Hi Ahmad.
                      I think I am in an even worse situation than yours. I am Italian, living in Italy. Full stop. :-)
                      Nonetheless, I live in that crazy world where PI equals to 3.1415926535..., "while( TRUE );" is an endless loop and "Y is 150% more than X" means "Y = X*2.5".
                      In the very same world I can claim whatever I want and am prepared to receive anything in between critics and death sentences, especially when my claims have some chance not to be fully true.
                      Then I can either give up or fight back the challenges with my ideas and facts.
                      I for one appreciate your apologies and can also understand your points.

                      But, please, keep in mind these 10 things:

                      0. Words matter, numbers matter even more.
                      1. You need to (be prepared to) proof your claims in a number of different ways.

                      Otherwise you'll be bringing "yet another eCAT" (hence my 1st line joke).
                      In my opinion, finally, those 10 points are valid also in real life.

                      Good luck with your projects!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Uqbar View Post
                        Hi Ahmad.
                        I think I am in an even worse situation than yours. I am Italian, living in Italy. Full stop. :-)
                        Try to survive two revolutions in 3 years -_- "consider the second one a coup if you wish", waaaay too unstable, whenever you try to build something right, politics interfere

                        Originally posted by Uqbar View Post
                        Nonetheless, I live in that crazy world where PI equals to 3.1415926535..., "while( TRUE );" is an endless loop and "Y is 150% more than X" means "Y = X*2.5".
                        I can understand infinity "I wish", both in PI and in a while(true); loop, but if there's one thing I never got right, is the Egyptian percentage (consider it a standard), +150% means y=(x*1.5), It's some kind of a bad translation+a flunked in math second grader doing your technical writing for you, imagine if that second grader was a fanatic in a politically disturbed area, where anything is considered a (proof of our superiority) -_- nonsense, and I am not into that, honestly, I don't claim to be a victim, but I had no other way, it's not as fun as it sounds -_- (yuppie, We're gonna build a Linux distro and take over the entire world as the most intellectually sophisticated race among humanity, no, among the entire universe "both known and unknown"), deal with it, this is how people see "Educational projects" in a "not sure if we are a great" nation, if it should be considered a nation at all -_-", it could be dangerous BTW

                        Originally posted by Uqbar View Post
                        In the very same world I can claim whatever I want and am prepared to receive anything in between critics and death sentences, especially when my claims have some chance not to be fully true.
                        Then I can either give up or fight back the challenges with my ideas and facts.
                        I for one appreciate your apologies and can also understand your points.
                        I don't blame you, It's all our fault, plus, I've seen things in the past three years that might make it easy for you to convince me that Santa is real "He's not, that's not another crazy claim"

                        Originally posted by Uqbar View Post
                        But, please, keep in mind these 10 things:

                        0. Words matter, numbers matter even more.
                        1. You need to (be prepared to) proof your claims in a number of different ways.
                        I wouldn't agree more, yet, I wouldn't prove anything, simply, I stopped caring, the numbers are not true, the docs were written by fanatics from the SphinUX Community "yes, we have a +4K active community", simply, It's easier to prove that Santa exists "1+1=10 (in decimal please)".
                        in other words, here's a Linux based OS, if you like it, use it, if you don't, please tell us how would you like your StdBaseFS "I'd like mine overcooked"

                        Originally posted by Uqbar View Post
                        Otherwise you'll be bringing "yet another eCAT" (hence my 1st line joke).
                        In my opinion, finally, those 10 points are valid also in real life.
                        At least you don't have a military scientist "ranked: General" who managed to build a device that can turn AIDS into "Kofta - meat balls on a stick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofta"
                        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ures-Aids.html
                        See what I am talking about?! it's embedded in our culture craaaaazy claaaaaims not as crazy as the one mentioned in this topic, but fanatics would make it "Reasonable enough" for you to believe and if you didn't, you will, they'll just apply a tiny bit of force"
                        SphinUX OS is not a scam, what fanatics say is.
                        problem is, if you can't talk, no one would know so if you understand politics as much as you understand BIN(2)=10 , you might get my point here

                        Originally posted by Uqbar View Post
                        Good luck with your projects!
                        Thanks, not my project, not alone at least

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SphinUXer View Post
                          I know this might sound ridiculous, yet, I'll say it anyway ...
                          (...)First I'll be introducing myself, since I don't like to hold the position of "The shady guy from Egypt"
                          I am just another *nix user, I don't care about licenses, all I care about is hacking stuff, that's it, I don't like the idea of "lots of users, no contribution"
                          the real name is "Ahmad Gaber", age 23, male obviously -or not-, and I am just the core dev for this project.
                          this project started as an "Egyptian Linux distribution" then we got crazy about adding flashy stuff, and we learned it -the hard way- that this is a BAD IDEA !!!

                          performance claims?! miss-translated, miss-understood, and definitely illogical -as it sounds-, yet, as the mentality of the Egyptian people -which is pretty much weird- isn't clear, it's always the more flashy and heavily modded the thing is -like a NY cab, but with the cab driver sayin' that he has PhD- the more it's considered valuable, it's silly yet what makes things worse, is when you say that your thing is 150% faster, it means that it's gooood, real gooooooood, it can do 150% stuff more on the same machine, silly, yet it's the "common guy's language".
                          (...)

                          That's it for now, again, we apologize, and we would love to hear anything from you, things have changed, I promise

                          Thanks for your time, and sorry for my bad English
                          Thank you for honesty and bridging the gap between the claims and the reality.

                          But you have to stay clear that even your example with PhD is maybe a misunderstanding of yours. The claims were not: 150% faster, they were fairly speciffic like this quote from original Phoronix article:
                          "SpinUX documentation also states, "The kernel proved to process 100% faster than the Linux kernel, memory consumption is 300% less, and I/O is 50% better than the Linux kernel." "
                          These claims are understood as hard numbers. In fact as I'm aware there was NO benchmark, no methodology. I have a laptop with a disk that gets sometimes (in bursts) more than 100 MB/s (with SATA1). If I take the claim on face value, it would mean that SpinUX would work on my laptop faster than the physical speed of controller. If the statement is said, and I can prove it as it is false, it remains false, regardless of your language difference!

                          Let me say in my view, I write most of my life two kinds of software:
                          - desktop, boring UI stuff (sometimes is intereting, but is beyond the point) with .Net;
                          - I write a compiler. The documentation and even the blog have all the time caveats, describing for example bugs, or limitations. Even the case when I have a very good performance profile, I put the caveat: "this is a bad benchmark"

                          This was the problem (excluding the licenses part) as for me: if the claims were written with caveats in language, or at least using "weasel words" like: "up-to 300%", even it would sound incredible, it will be on the "oh, it is a small use-case".

                          It is (no offense) like any other claim you will say and is taken on the face value. If not, it is exactly (regardless of numbers) just boasting for anyone else. I don't know, but someone saying: I have a PhD, and eventually you hear that his degree is just highschool, wouldn't sound dishonest for you, if this taxi driver you set as an example would say this just to have you as a customer?

                          I think that a bit of modesty is what defines most moral systems, even Islam (I'm atheist btw) as a good character. Otherwise, it is a natural reaction for the claims and no one is guilty of "misunderstanding" the claims.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
                            Thank you for honesty and bridging the gap between the claims and the reality.

                            But you have to stay clear that even your example with PhD is maybe a misunderstanding of yours. The claims were not: 150% faster, they were fairly speciffic like this quote from original Phoronix article:
                            "SpinUX documentation also states, "The kernel proved to process 100% faster than the Linux kernel, memory consumption is 300% less, and I/O is 50% better than the Linux kernel." "
                            These claims are understood as hard numbers. In fact as I'm aware there was NO benchmark, no methodology. I have a laptop with a disk that gets sometimes (in bursts) more than 100 MB/s (with SATA1). If I take the claim on face value, it would mean that SpinUX would work on my laptop faster than the physical speed of controller. If the statement is said, and I can prove it as it is false, it remains false, regardless of your language difference!
                            I beg to differ, the PhD example was a "real life situation for us, it's as bad as this, we have jobless Civil Engineers", but that's not what I meant, the point is, when the real value is gone, it's all about bells and whistles trust me, I don't like those claims, PR, marketing, and we had arguments "internally" about the effectiveness of this strategy "tell recent times, when few things changed, and we managed to get rid of some fanatics"

                            Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
                            Let me say in my view, I write most of my life two kinds of software:
                            - desktop, boring UI stuff (sometimes is intereting, but is beyond the point) with .Net;
                            - I write a compiler. The documentation and even the blog have all the time caveats, describing for example bugs, or limitations. Even the case when I have a very good performance profile, I put the caveat: "this is a bad benchmark"

                            This was the problem (excluding the licenses part) as for me: if the claims were written with caveats in language, or at least using "weasel words" like: "up-to 300%", even it would sound incredible, it will be on the "oh, it is a small use-case".
                            It might not sound shocking, but I can assure you that "me, personally, did no official benchmarks aside from the look at my wobbly windows, they are cool, yuppie, and of course I didn't publish that as official documentation", another thing, no dev has written no docs when we are mentioning CheopX seriously, it's all Bullshit

                            Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
                            It is (no offense) like any other claim you will say and is taken on the face value. If not, it is exactly (regardless of numbers) just boasting for anyone else. I don't know, but someone saying: I have a PhD, and eventually you hear that his degree is just highschool, wouldn't sound dishonest for you, if this taxi driver you set as an example would say this just to have you as a customer?

                            I think that a bit of modesty is what defines most moral systems, even Islam (I'm atheist btw) as a good character. Otherwise, it is a natural reaction for the claims and no one is guilty of "misunderstanding" the claims.
                            I wouldn't care if he has a PhD or not I'd prefer to get to my destination as quickly as possible, yet, morally, aside from your beliefs "which I totally respect", it's not valid and it's entirely against what I'd believe is right !!!

                            I am not here to accuse you of miss-understanding us, I am here to apologize for the fanatics claims, and to give something in return I realize what you understood and it's justified by "Logic", and to be clear, I am on your side not justifying the numbers nor the claims, we got fed up from the way the project was managed

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SphinUXer View Post
                              ... the Egyptian percentage (consider it a standard), +150% means y=(x*1.5)
                              I think this is your main issue, my friend.
                              If you are a technician, you really know what actually works and what doesn't. And every other technician would agree with you.
                              But when it comes to "communication", I would suggest you to first check those kind of basics against what "the Internet means" tm by the same things.
                              May the Almighty/the Force be with you! And with our countries.

                              P.S.
                              We also had three revolutions in 11 months, but as people use to call it "politics" none really complained.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SphinUXer View Post
                                I beg to differ, the PhD example was a "real life situation for us, it's as bad as this, we have jobless Civil Engineers", but that's not what I meant, the point is, when the real value is gone, it's all about bells and whistles trust me, I don't like those claims, PR, marketing, and we had arguments "internally" about the effectiveness of this strategy "tell recent times, when few things changed, and we managed to get rid of some fanatics"

                                It might not sound shocking, but I can assure you that "me, personally, did no official benchmarks aside from the look at my wobbly windows, they are cool, yuppie, and of course I didn't publish that as official documentation", another thing, no dev has written no docs when we are mentioning CheopX seriously, it's all Bullshit
                                [...]
                                I am not here to accuse you of miss-understanding us, I am here to apologize for the fanatics claims, and to give something in return I realize what you understood and it's justified by "Logic", and to be clear, I am on your side not justifying the numbers nor the claims, we got fed up from the way the project was managed
                                Let me reiterate:
                                1 - I think that 12 pages out of 14 on this topic (at least) were on the position that your user was on the part of original claims were shown on Phoronix. You (or the user who posted with your account) wrote that everything is justified, but just have to be tried out
                                2 - Because of this, people complained. People did not complain out of hate, but complained because of the claims.

                                So your insertion with: "Egypt has a different culture" has little bearing on the hard numbers were quoted, the license name you choose to follow by modifying the Linux kernel, etc. Also, the any extra arguments: users of the SphinUX wrote this or that, you are responsible (if you are the owner) of them.

                                At last, but not at least, my criticism (or I can almost generalize for everyone who did the same) is not a branch of logic but a branch of philosophy (in the strictest sense), in fact is named: proving an argument.

                                It has many parts like:
                                - make your claims consistent with logic (when you fail, are named logical fallacies)
                                - make them consistent with reality (like publishing a science paper format, so it would be open to criticism and corrections)
                                - give measurable arguments, numbers (observations, like in science)
                                - the other part is to make correct qualifiers (it would be incorrect to say: every PhD is a taxi driver, even as you would say, some are)
                                - and others.

                                I am here to say: yes, you said in the "apology post" (I would name it: "half apology, half excuses post") that numbers are wrong and you pick a wrong license, but if you look in your previous posts you did other things wrong, and many overlap over many things like:
                                - attack of character of Richard Stallman and many RMS fans (I'm not one of them) would feel a bit attacked, to say it nicely
                                - you said: "11- We'd not start sentences with "we" anymore, it's ridiculous and self-centered " but I think almost all post uses: "We ..."

                                What I would recommend to you to do:
                                - try to make a publishable paper. Publish it if possible, or at least give a direct link to people so it can be easily disseminated what is engineering and what is "fan boy" message. It would save your time too, you can say: read this link.
                                - make a video conference that shows ups&downs (maybe a Google hangout or a Twitter feed to get questions if enough people come)
                                - record a full video with some use-cases where your OS does shine, use VirtualBox for this if you have no other idea
                                - don't blame PR, even he is at fault. In IT is always the project fault, the team fault, not the person's fault. When Linux fails to boot, you don't say: is the fault of Andrew or Linus or any developer who makes the commit, you say is the fault of the Linux. When you apologize, you should stay clear that the fault cannot lie in one or two people. When one people failed and no one did something, all team failed (from outside at least), and the apology should follow this conventions! When Steve Jobs (even he was a superstar) he critized Adobe, not the engineer on the Virtual Machines team.
                                - you say: "give to me the false claims to correct them". Disproving bad information takes time, and some people do not have it. In fact I would recommend just the opposite: say what you know is true of any parts of your projects (even there are just two claims) and add information which remain true. You will save the trouble for future criticism!

                                Wish to you luck and less trouble in future!

                                Comment

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