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Fedora 19 Beta Released With Lots Of New Work

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  • #16
    Originally posted by log0 View Post
    LOL, you want professional stuff, go for RHEL. Fedora is pretty much just testing ground for it.
    I mean professional in desktop perspective not in a 1000 day running server with 10mio apache requests per day...

    I mean professional in terms of how long reaction times are when you report a bug, that somebody give you some response in a week or so at least if not 24hours. And if its only a "wontfix" or "invalid" change or something with maybe a small oneliner why.

    I nearly embarised to say it, but professional as far as ubuntu is professional.


    I dont mean enterprise... I dont get the enterprise thing anyway... ok if you need something for a mars rover that costs you 1billion if something crashes I dont want to use maybe any ubuntu or fedora or something like that...

    But ok I get it now Fedora stable = more unstable than every ubuntu alpha...

    if thats the case maybe its natural because ubuntu is more conservative ok... but again its pretty bad... I mean on every other distry I have some alternate installer or chroot-install-path...

    So again lets say I am wrong if I want something usable I go RH-1000-dollar-thing... else fedora will always be the pre-alpha state for the real redhat distri... so fedora is not targeted for desktop users not even the ones with console skills and the ones that compiled kernels and stuff like that. who should use it then?

    Whats the target, is it a kind of proof of concept distro for gnome-"os" or what?

    only a meta-distro to make other distries? If I am so wrong about excepting it a replacement for a ubuntu for somebody that always switches to the next ubuntu when alpha is out because he feels bored and feels that the old desktop is to old... and somebody who is pissed switching away from gnome and other stuff they did?

    Am I here totaly wrong? I thought arch linux is the geek distro that is not for linux beginners? At least it does everything you want it to do...


    sorry I am overreacting shurly but I like the idea of non-rolling distries for some of my machines. I even got over my rpm based distro hate ^^. I try really hard. I thought maybe I will hate fedora when upgrades to next version will fail or something like that... or stuff that worked break more often... so I wanted to collect impressions to desite in 6 months or so if I have found a new home, but it seems its just impossible to even collect this 6 months of experience because it fails to just make a basic installation.

    omg. If a distro has to do one thing, it should be able to install itself... if its the worst distro that is garbage on every other point but thats the first thing I get working.

    But I try to calm down... doenst help... so I just have no good choice at all... there is no other distro that is not old like hell (debian stable) and is non-rolling and has no cameleons all over the place

    companies seem to fail as linux-distributionars, so community based distro seem the only way to get something good on your machines.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by finalzone View Post
      It seems you attempted to do a fresh install by using the remaining free space. Based on your description, did you check if you properly assign the volume to the right place? Have you check how much space left inside the /.? If possible, post pictures so readers can visualize the problem.
      asign a volume to a place? what do you mean with that? I can create a volume in a volume group I can assign / to it, I even klicked then the format it, I selected ext4 if it was not selected. I pressed even that button right at the bottom to assing or something. It shows than the existing swap volume and the fedora and has assiged it to /.

      is there a additional thing to do than assign it to / and then press done after that?

      hmm making photos is bad because I would have to make real photos ok I could make it with my defy and then upload it... I think here is 2:40 a.m. so maybe I do it tomorow...

      sorry for spamming flames or flaming ^^ but it just makes a big barricade to my plans (if that makes sense in english) ^^

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
        ok at least it just did not give me the option to make a custom layout..
        Which is "it"? Fedora 18 does give such an option, I've used it. Its just no longer marked "custom layout" in F18 Anaconda as world+dog had come to expect. Please see http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/...oning-x86.html

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        • #19
          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          its pretty normal that users that try to install your os, first time more or less and fail... will most likely not make a bug report, only users that used your distri some time will maybe start to make bug reports... its nice to have the possibility to make bug reports not like for windows or something like that. But you cant except people do that if they are new to your distro.
          People new to a distribution shouldn't use a beta version in the first place, the same as people that don't expect bugs shouldn't run a beta version. That is a quite simple concept, that you for some reason don't seem to grasp.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
            People new to a distribution shouldn't use a beta version in the first place, the same as people that don't expect bugs shouldn't run a beta version. That is a quite simple concept, that you for some reason don't seem to grasp.
            I would not have problems with problems in betas so in the distribution... in the packages... but not so big bugs in the installer.

            And sorry maybe I used the wrong software till now, most of the time linux-alphas were more stable than windows-finals most of the time.

            That said... I tried just to make the screenshots about the bugs, but than something suprising happend, doing nothing different in the partition screen it worked.

            Maybe its because I selected english us on the first screen instead of german even it would be cracy that that relates to each other.

            maybe its because I had connected my phone on the usb or something. I dont know but it did install. So its no generall bug, I maybe will install it on other pcs next days. So I see if that happens again with german language selected or what.

            If it not happens again I try to reproduce it on this pc.

            I rebootet yesterday the installation 3-4 times so it was reproducable.

            So... I am calmed... I think you sometimes have to rage a bit to get things done... if somebody took my rant personaly or something I am sorry.

            thanx for the feedback. If I can reproduce it I make photos or I think if its the language thing I dont even really need many screenshots. maybe what the mainscreens says after I made the custom partitioning.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
              People new to a distribution shouldn't use a beta version in the first place, the same as people that don't expect bugs shouldn't run a beta version. That is a quite simple concept, that you for some reason don't seem to grasp.
              Its a different thing if you are a noob you should not use betas maybe... but if you used serveral linuxes and compiled your own kernels for 10-15 years it should be possible to do...

              And sorry fedora is pretty different from any distribution. the cooperative design the wiki is pretty crappy but ok debians website sucks too, they have also no official wiki as far as I did not find one ^^ and so on... maybe I am a bit papered by distries like arch/gentoo/ubuntu.

              If anaconda works its not bad. so lets hope the bugs finaly all get fixed till f19 release.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                Its a different thing if you are a noob you should not use betas maybe... but if you used serveral linuxes and compiled your own kernels for 10-15 years it should be possible to do...
                And sorry fedora is pretty different from any distribution. the cooperative design the wiki is pretty... [amusing]
                If anaconda works its not bad. so lets hope the bugs finaly all get fixed till f19 release.
                Yeah, Fedora is different alright. Wikis are Wikis: don't expect much and you'll never be disappointed As a case close to point, the Fedora Project Wiki has a Really Neat sidebar:
                Download Fedora now! (with link)

                Do you want to install Fedora? Read our Quick Install Guide. (with link)

                Join the Fedora Project.

                Read documentation and our FAQ for using and contributing to Fedora. (with link)
                Now, linking the "Quick Install Guide" directly beneath "Download" is pretty good design, except when you Go There, you find "Quick Install Guide" is "still under construction" and -- as you may have noticed -- totally unfit for your intended purpose. Which would be Okay if whoever had written / was writing the "Quick Install Guide" had bothered to follow the "Read documentation" link and noticed it indexes both an "Installation Guide" and an "Installation Quick Start Guide", the latter of which undoubtedly provides all the missing information the "Quick Install Guide" author intended, for which all he need do is provide a direct link. But that would require his reading the documentation...

                I personally don't trust Anaconda much further than I can toss it. Like yourself I do all my disk partitioning and labeling in Gparted from a separate LiveCD or install, recording my labels 'cuz they'll be deleted if Anaconda re-formats the partition and doesn't remember their names. Then I do a bog standard Desktop or Workstation installation -- no extras -- and am certain not to have an internet upgrade repository selected during the install. Everything from DVD or pen drive. Less to go wrong, unless I'm installing on brand-new hardware and think I might need the latest kernel to run network, wifi, or graphics. Then open a terminal and do "yum update rpm yum", "yum update NetworkManager", "yum update kernel", "yum update glibc" and "yum update" (in that order) before rebooting and opening Package Mangler and installing any additional stuff I want from the network. Takes a bit longer, but can save a lot of time.

                Anyway, glad to hear you're sorted, and thanks for the apologies.
                Last edited by pipe13; 06-01-2013, 11:07 PM. Reason: Add personal Anaconda precautions

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by pipe13 View Post
                  Now, linking the "Quick Install Guide" directly beneath "Download" is pretty good design, except when you Go There, you find "Quick Install Guide" is "still under construction" and -- as you may have noticed -- totally unfit for your intended purpose. Which would be Okay if whoever had written / was writing the "Quick Install Guide" had bothered to follow the "Read documentation" link and noticed it indexes both an "Installation Guide" and an "Installation Quick Start Guide", the latter of which undoubtedly provides all the missing information the "Quick Install Guide" author intended, for which all he need do is provide a direct link. But that would require his reading the documentation...
                  That was just a link to the old draft in the wiki that someone had forgotten to update to the published link. Fixed. FYI, anyone can sign up for a Fedora account in a few mins (to avoid spammers) and have direct edit access to the wiki.

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                  • #24
                    I installed the 19 beta two days ago, and although I haven't had as much time to play around with it as I would like, I can at least confirm that Anaconda in 19 is indeed tremendously improved. Overall, the whole release feels polished and ready. I don't get the impression that I'm using beta software at all. But like I said, I haven't played with it enough to form a solid opinion or discover any bugs yet.

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                    • #25
                      Still not there.

                      I created a multi-disk VM specifically in-order to test if the F19B's (new-)anaconda storage manager reached some type of feature parity with the old (pre-F18) anaconda.
                      At least as far as I can see, the new-anaconda still doesn't support RAID+LVM combo (let alone really complex setups), and the LVM UI is still *very* cumbersome and overly sophisticated.
                      E.g. trying to create the standard boot + LVM (root, home, storage, free space), is far more complex that what it used to.
                      In the old anaconda you created two partitions (boot, LVM) and then went into the LVM configuration and created the remaining LVM volumes (home, storage).
                      In the new anaconda (deep breath...) you:
                      1. Create 6 partitions (boot, root, home, storage, temp).
                      2. Manually edit 5 partitions (root, home, storage, temp), marking them as LVM and slowly editing the different LVM attributes (E.g. LVM name). Any mistake at this stage is deadly, as the left bar is missing an indication whether or not a partition is an LVM member (let alone the LVM name) or not.

                      As it stands, its far easier (for me) to simply bypass the anaconda storage manager altogether, manually creating and activating the software RAID and LVM and using the anaconda storage manager only to assign mount points to the different volumes...

                      As much as I like Fedora, I must admit that the new anaconda is still very immature and far from being RHEL 7 capable.

                      - Gilboa
                      DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                      SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                      BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                      LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                        Its a different thing if you are a noob you should not use betas maybe... but if you used serveral linuxes and compiled your own kernels for 10-15 years it should be possible to do...
                        But in this case you are also experienced enough to expect bugs in a beta, you are able to find out how to reproduce it and report it to actually get it fixed, instead of whining on a random forum about it.

                        debians website sucks too, they have also no official wiki as far as I did not find one
                        So your expert knowledge was not good enough to type "Debian Wiki" into your favorite search engine or just click on the "Support" link on Debian's website to get a link to the wiki? That says more about you than about the websites, I would think.
                        If anaconda works its not bad. so lets hope the bugs finaly all get fixed till f19 release.
                        Again, how should they fix bugs that don't get reported?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                          But in this case you are also experienced enough to expect bugs in a beta, you are able to find out how to reproduce it and report it to actually get it fixed, instead of whining on a random forum about it.

                          So your expert knowledge was not good enough to type "Debian Wiki" into your favorite search engine or just click on the "Support" link on Debian's website to get a link to the wiki? That says more about you than about the websites, I would think.Again, how should they fix bugs that don't get reported?
                          Yes I except of course bugs in betas, I even except bugs in stable releases... but not in the installer, the whole point is to be able to test the distro to find bugs. if nobody is able to install the distro nobody will find bugs in the distro.

                          Ok maybe its here a special case because of this anaconda switch, maybe I am here pampered by debian or ubuntu, becuase (if you want lvm stuff you need the alternate installer in ubuntu which is the debian installer) always everything works ever even in each alpha.

                          I maybe used the wrong types of linuxes that just worked ever. So I did not learn that basic stuff can break.

                          maybe it has also to do with the fact that with any good linux, so any linux I used distro-upgrade is a thing that works always... debian based and rolling release based distros. So I see the installers only very very seldom, maybe they are also more buggy then I have seen.

                          It sucks just most, if you have a somewhat working linux and maybe even your x-server does not start at least I know where to find what logs and all resolutions are basicly more or less distro-independend, but to fix or debug a installer problem is really bad. Because yes I could make screenshots or maybe there are some from me unknown logs...


                          But yes maybe I ranted a bit, at least it seems to fixed my problem... and here many start to talk about fedora in a basicly dead thread so yes trolling somethimes can be constructive and lead faster to a goal.

                          Like I said if somebody took that personal I am sorry but please stop insulting me just because I said maybe something bad about your distro.


                          And on top that the homepage looks liek written by paid developers that hate their work. with wiki I mean something like ubuntuusers, yes even as pro I like such sites. The fedora wiki looks a bit 80er or 90er-ish. style.

                          More like a manual. and the bugtracker everything hurts my eyes. as other example look at the archwiki, its 100 times better than this company-targeted wiki sites of fedora.



                          One such example of this wiki content as example its not only the bad style... is that somewhere it says that distro-upgrades are not recomment. omg... of course I reinstall my distri every 6 months.
                          Last edited by blackiwid; 06-02-2013, 07:26 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            blackiwid,

                            Your comments are (very) long, and *very* repetitive make them unreadable (at least to me).
                            If you want to be taken seriously and/or have an informative debate with someone, you should really, (really!) consider switching tactic.

                            BTW, trolling *never* works (unless you're enjoy being ignored).

                            - Gilboa
                            DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                            SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                            BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                            LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                              blackiwid,

                              Your comments are (very) long, and *very* repetitive make them unreadable (at least to me).
                              If you want to be taken seriously and/or have an informative debate with someone, you should really, (really!) consider switching tactic.

                              BTW, trolling *never* works (unless you're enjoy being ignored).

                              - Gilboa
                              You are so wrong, I did not get ignored someone said I should make screenshots that was a helpful information, and as a accident it even caused a successful installation of fedora.
                              I insulted nobody personaly and if you really cant take it, just ignore me really not react. you say I only get ignoring but even from you I get not ignored.


                              I did not want to make a debatte I wanted solutions for my problem, I did get it... so it worked, but it sounds like that was pure taktic, It was out of frustration...
                              I am a developer so I am used to that you can do everything, you have only push hard enough... I dont have the time to wait 1-2 weeks for answers of a bug... so to make it not longer I stop here...

                              * btw for a normal bug I can wait longer, but not a total show-stopper-bug.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                                As it stands, its far easier (for me) to simply bypass the anaconda storage manager altogether, manually creating and activating the software RAID and LVM and using the anaconda storage manager only to assign mount points to the different volumes...
                                As much as I like Fedora, I must admit that the new anaconda is still very immature and far from being RHEL 7 capable.
                                - Gilboa
                                While I agree with minimal use of Anaconda, there (apparently) were reasons for dumping the old one and starting from scratch. Those I can think of are improved graphics and multi-threading. So I'm wondering if it will be possible in some future iteration to just launch gparted and system-config-lvm directly from Anaconda, thus maintaining some semblance of consistency between the install tools and the installed. (Pure speculation dept. One additional quirk is such tools require fairly complete online documentation. Gparted is good as-is, its manual is accessed from its Help menu. Somebody (yeah yeah, I know) would have to convert the lvm man page to html appropriate for the system-config-lvm gui. Then there's mdadm, which hasn't yet a gui at all. (Actually... Hmmmm. Am I [I]that[/] desperate for another time sync?)
                                Last edited by pipe13; 06-02-2013, 11:30 AM.

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