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Unity 8, Mir To Be Experimental Choice In Ubuntu 13.10

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  • Unity 8, Mir To Be Experimental Choice In Ubuntu 13.10

    Phoronix: Unity 8, Mir To Be Experimental Choice In Ubuntu 13.10

    For those Linux enthusiasts wishing to toy with the Mir Display Server and Canonical's next-generation Unity 8 interface, they will be made optionally available for desktop users with the Ubuntu 13.10 release due out in October...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTM3MzY

  • #2
    Good, get in the hands of the community for testing is best for the project.

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    • #3
      At this rate they may be really able to ship on 2014 as they said. Maybe some bugs here and there but thats part of software life-cycle

      Better ship something than never. The only drawback are going to be video drivers, unless you are running with intel video chips you are out of luck.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TheOne View Post
        At this rate they may be really able to ship on 2014 as they said. Maybe some bugs here and there but thats part of software life-cycle

        Better ship something than never. The only drawback are going to be video drivers, unless you are running with intel video chips you are out of luck.
        Let's hope that the supposed contacts between ubuntu and nvidia paid off and we'll see support of Mir around time of launch in 2014.

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        • #5
          Even if it's buggy, it seems like we'll have a lot fewer design bugs than the rest of the stack. Or maybe we're just creating more- we'll see.

          What I'm really interested to see is how traditional apps integrate with the new Unity, and whether the GTK theme will be reworked. I'm guessing the indicators will be the same, but we'll add a global menubar when docked.

          As annoying as it is that everything is becoming so fragmented from a design perspective, it's still pretty amazing how many awesome things are coming from the Linux ecosystem. It makes Windows 8 seem rather boring.

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          • #6
            Can they say if Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Lubuntu will exist at 14.04 and how it will be handled? X.org or will they make those workoning on Mir on their own?

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            • #7
              I will take my hat off if Canonical could pull a working Desktop Ubuntu using Mir in 14.04.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by riklaunim View Post
                Can they say if Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Lubuntu will exist at 14.04 and how it will be handled? X.org or will they make those workoning on Mir on their own?
                I think there's some FUD about the impending doom of the various *buntus. Writing distro-specific patches to enable KDE / Xfce / LXDE to run on top of Mir is beyond the resources available to the *buntus, but there are several potential solutions besides that route that should ensure the *buntus continue to survive.

                First, as you yourself point out, the traditional X server should still be available. That's a safe, reliable fallback in case no other alternatives materialize. Next, since everyone is so sure Wayland is going to be ready for desktop computer usage before Mir is, what's to keep Ubuntu from shipping Wayland in its repositories, and therefore making it readily available to the *buntus to build upon? And even if Ubuntu doesn't ship Wayland in the repos, what is there to prohibit the *buntus from packaging it themselves? And finally, there's also the possibility of a Wayland-Mir compatibility layer.

                For a more fun exercise, try to imagine what it will look like if Ubuntu actually ships a desktop-ready Wayland before they ship a desktop-ready Mir. It can happen, completely unintentionally. Ubuntu gets over 90% of its packages from Debian unstable. Since Wayland is ahead of Mir in development already, and since Mir is being targeted towards mobile first, there's a good chance there's going to be a bit of a gap between Wayland's and Mir's general releases for traditional desktop systems. If enough of this gap occurs outside the Debian 8 (Jessie) freeze, there's a good chance an out-of-the-box functional Wayland will get packaged in Debian. What will Ubuntu do when it's time to re-sync with Debian unstable?

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                • #9
                  Open source is always more interesting to watch (and hack)

                  Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
                  As annoying as it is that everything is becoming so fragmented from a design perspective, it's still pretty amazing how many awesome things are coming from the Linux ecosystem. It makes Windows 8 seem rather boring.
                  Ain't that the truth. Hell, that's something I regarded as one of the disadvantages of the proprietary NVIDIA/ATI drivers: you are just a passive end user. With open source, I've watched Radeon framerates in Scorched3d quadruple in a year, part of it from upstream, part from configuring it right. Try THAT with a proprietary driver.

                  Windows 8, like GNOME and Ubuntu, has gotten into trouble with the desktop/tablet mismatch. Unlike us, it's "take it or leave it." Here, fragmentation is a nuisance but hardly new. The other side of fragmentation is variety and a smorgasboard of options. If you are working on something and like QT's tools, use them, you won't lock out GNOME users. The reverse is also true. We've lived with the GNOME/KDE divide and you can run anything from either side of the house on the other. That's the one thing we do need to keep, so compatability layers are going to be important. A possible ugliness
                  will be that very graphically demanding applications might need to run in their native environment for maximum performance.

                  Other than that issue, we are getting a choice of three display servers, at least five "modern" DE's plus dozens of lightweight ones. It should be possible for a distro-or a hacker-to pretty much set up any desired desktop for any class of device. UbuntuStudio (or whatever it evolves into) running
                  on a big multicore won't and should not look like Ubuntu Touch running on a smartphone, but the packages will exist to build either, so long as library incompatabilies, etc are carefully avoided.

                  I for one am looking forward to Cinnamon,(based on gnome-shell) getting ported to Wayland. Unity on Mir and Gnome-shell and Cinnamon on Wayland might take the "heavy" and the "slow" out of all these DE's once and for all. That will get Linux as a whole past our "Vista Moment."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Serge View Post
                    First, as you yourself point out, the traditional X server should still be available. That's a safe, reliable fallback in case no other alternatives materialize. Next, since everyone is so sure Wayland is going to be ready for desktop computer usage before Mir is, what's to keep Ubuntu from shipping Wayland in its repositories, and therefore making it readily available to the *buntus to build upon? And even if Ubuntu doesn't ship Wayland in the repos, what is there to prohibit the *buntus from packaging it themselves?
                    There is the question of their graphics stack. It has to support Wayland. If they patch it to only support Mir, then that would require the other *buntu groups to maintain their own stack.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheOne View Post
                      At this rate they may be really able to ship on 2014 as they said.
                      I'll believe it when i see it, but best of luck to them.

                      It seems like we've seen this same story about 3 times now in the last couple days. Nothing but Ubuntu news going on right now, apparently.

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                      • #12
                        Debian graphics stack might work for derivatives if Ubuntu's becomes incompatable.

                        Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                        There is the question of their graphics stack. It has to support Wayland. If they patch it to only support Mir, then that would require the other *buntu groups to maintain their own stack.
                        And any *buntu such as Kubuntu finding themselves locked out of the graphics stack could put all of their own packages, plus alternative/renamed versions of Mesa and X or Wayland pulled from Debian into Universe. If that won't work, they could include the necessary Debian repo directly in their own /etc/apt/sources.list, operating as a mixed system. Debian will already be having to mantain a graphics stack independant of Ubuntu, why do this twice?

                        Would be necessary to set pin-priorities so the usable Ubuntu packages would not also be replaced by the Debian versions. Same for mint, etc: If the Ubuntu graphics stack conflicts with Wayland, with X, or with a needed driver, Debian's stack is out there. If for some reason even that runs into conflicts, rebasing on Debian is worst-case scenario. Mint, in fact, keeps their Debian-only based version around, I suspect for reasons of insurance.
                        Last edited by Luke; 05-17-2013, 01:08 AM. Reason: clarification of headline

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                          There is the question of their graphics stack. It has to support Wayland. If they patch it to only support Mir, then that would require the other *buntu groups to maintain their own stack.
                          Originally posted by Luke View Post
                          And any *buntu such as Kubuntu finding themselves locked out of the graphics stack could put all of their own packages, plus alternative/renamed versions of Mesa and X or Wayland pulled from Debian into Universe. If that won't work, they could include the necessary Debian repo directly in their own /etc/apt/sources.list, operating as a mixed system. Debian will already be having to mantain a graphics stack independant of Ubuntu, why do this twice?

                          Would be necessary to set pin-priorities so the usable Ubuntu packages would not also be replaced by the Debian versions. Same for mint, etc: If the Ubuntu graphics stack conflicts with Wayland, with X, or with a needed driver, Debian's stack is out there. If for some reason even that runs into conflicts, rebasing on Debian is worst-case scenario. Mint, in fact, keeps their Debian-only based version around, I suspect for reasons of insurance.
                          But do you guys really think Canonical will want to re-write that low in the stack? I mean, don't they already have their hands full?

                          Then again, they already looked like they had their hands full five random in-house projects ago, so maybe they're willing to take on a bit more after all.

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                          • #14
                            Wayland

                            I'd rather see Unity on Wayland than on Mir.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                              I'd rather see Unity on Wayland than on Mir.
                              +1000

                              would be wonderful

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