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Manjaro: A Convenient Way To Play With Arch Linux

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  • #16
    Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
    When you try out Manjaro you try out Manjaro not Arch Linux.

    I like how most keep whining that Arch is supposedly so tedious to install and that it takes so long.
    LOL what a load of horseshit. Setting up Arch is a lot faster than most distros. Installing Arch means typing 6 commands into the terminal.

    "gdisk /dev/sda" Press "n" to make a partition". Press "w" to write changes.
    "mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda1"
    "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt"
    "pacstrap /mnt base base-devel syslinux"
    "syslinux-install_update -i -a -m -c /mnt"
    "genfstab -p /mnt > /mnt/etc/fstab"

    Tada. Arch is installed. Reboot. Point the default syslinux config to your root partition and boot it.

    Get yourself an ip address with "dhcpd <interface>" and install network manager and enable it with systemd so you have internet right away the next time you boot.
    Install your prop. graphcs driver which also pulls in xorg.

    Want a desktop? Install one of the meta packages and enable the desktop manager with systemd. Create a user. Reboot. Tada there's your Arch Linux destop.

    Wow that was super hard and took a full 6-7 minutes.
    You seem to assume that command lines are just character strings typed at an average of 50 wpm. They're not. You have to google or man them, check they are correct, check they are up to date (which requires additional research), etc...
    This takes much more than 6-7 minutes.
    Command line is efficient for tasks you do regularly, or automate. Installing an OS doesn't really fall into that category for most people.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by erendorn View Post
      You seem to assume that command lines are just character strings typed at an average of 50 wpm. They're not. You have to google or man them, check they are correct, check they are up to date (which requires additional research), etc...
      This takes much more than 6-7 minutes.
      Command line is efficient for tasks you do regularly, or automate. Installing an OS doesn't really fall into that category for most people.
      Or read the newbe guide. You don't really need to know anything to install arch linux, they have everything documented. If you have at lest a little experience with linux before, the installation is a no brainier.

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      • #18
        ArchLive

        It's damned easy to build your own Arch ISO : I wrote howto to bundle nvidia blender xfce in my wiki

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Akka View Post
          Or read the newbe guide.
          Try doing that and installing Arch in 6-7 minutes. I'll give you a cookie if you can.

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          • #20
            I've installed Arch ~8 years ago. SInce then, I've migrated from 32bit to 64bit, several times changed hardware, migrated partitions, all that without a reinstall. So why the heck all that fuss about installing Arch when you will have to install it only once in a lifetime?

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            • #21
              I thought the Arch devs intend for the users to upgrade all packages together and that single package upgrades are not a supported practice. How does Manjaro keep this going if certain packages can migrate down the branches while others might get blocked?

              I'm more curious about why point-based releases are better for benchmarking, though. Does Ubuntu contain the entire default install in the install image, or does a default install still require pulling packages from the Ubuntu repos? Because if it's the later, isn't that kinda like being back to the same problem as that with a rolling release, that changes in the repository can make benchmark results unreproducible?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pejakm View Post
                So why the heck all that fuss about installing Arch when you will have to install it only once in a lifetime?
                Reading is hard. Let's go shopping!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Akka View Post
                  Or read the newbe guide.
                  Tried that, took me over two days and in the end it didn't boot. I will give Manjaro a shot and see if I have any better luck.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BW~Merlin View Post
                    Tried that, took me over two days and in the end it didn't boot. I will give Manjaro a shot and see if I have any better luck.
                    Don't. If you didn't manage to install arch, manjaro will break at some point and you'll have no idea how to fix it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Serge View Post
                      I thought the Arch devs intend for the users to upgrade all packages together and that single package upgrades are not a supported practice. How does Manjaro keep this going if certain packages can migrate down the branches while others might get blocked?

                      I'm more curious about why point-based releases are better for benchmarking, though. Does Ubuntu contain the entire default install in the install image, or does a default install still require pulling packages from the Ubuntu repos? Because if it's the later, isn't that kinda like being back to the same problem as that with a rolling release, that changes in the repository can make benchmark results unreproducible?
                      Single-package upgrades aren't supported in Arch? If so, my only comment is Y-U-C-K!

                      1- You don't need a network connection to install *buntu or Debian, unless you use the netboot installer (which you won't end up doing without knowing).

                      2- A performance change DOES NOT go into a regular update: it's a feature, and features are for point releases.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                        Single-package upgrades aren't supported in Arch? If so, my only comment is Y-U-C-K!

                        1- You don't need a network connection to install *buntu or Debian, unless you use the netboot installer (which you won't end up doing without knowing).

                        2- A performance change DOES NOT go into a regular update: it's a feature, and features are for point releases.
                        They are supported with some caveats, library updates that require apps to be recompiled are handled by recompiling the app against the new library and pushing out an update for the app and the library at once. If you only upgrade 1 or the other you can get mismatches which would make the app segfault or SYMBOL_NOT_FOUND or other errors.

                        1) Arch will use a network connection if its available to DL the latest packages, if not there are the base packages on the ISO.
                        2) Arch doesnt HAVE point releases so yes, performance updates are done as the updates are pushed down. Whatever upstream does, Arch does, its really that simple.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                          They are supported with some caveats, library updates that require apps to be recompiled are handled by recompiling the app against the new library and pushing out an update for the app and the library at once. If you only upgrade 1 or the other you can get mismatches which would make the app segfault or SYMBOL_NOT_FOUND or other errors.

                          1) Arch will use a network connection if its available to DL the latest packages, if not there are the base packages on the ISO.
                          2) Arch doesnt HAVE point releases so yes, performance updates are done as the updates are pushed down. Whatever upstream does, Arch does, its really that simple.
                          The last time I tried Arch in 2011 the base ISO did not contain any packages save for the basic bootstrap image and the curses-based installer. A network connection is pretty much mandatory. I have no idea how things are being done *now*, but it surely was the case in 2011.

                          You'd think that all would go well after 1 hour of crying and coaxing my WiFi to work for installation, but immediately after that when running pacman to pull in all the standard packages (drivers, DEs, software applications, etc etc) as instructed by the newbie guide, everything just went belly up when pacman claimed to be unable to meet some dependencies for the i915 driver package and could not proceed with installation, leaving me with a system that had essentially garbage on it. Not fun at all. Went back to Fedora and had a working installation up in an hour.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                            The last time I tried Arch in 2011 the base ISO did not contain any packages save for the basic bootstrap image and the curses-based installer. A network connection is pretty much mandatory. I have no idea how things are being done *now*, but it surely was the case in 2011.

                            You'd think that all would go well after 1 hour of crying and coaxing my WiFi to work for installation, but immediately after that when running pacman to pull in all the standard packages (drivers, DEs, software applications, etc etc) as instructed by the newbie guide, everything just went belly up when pacman claimed to be unable to meet some dependencies for the i915 driver package and could not proceed with installation, leaving me with a system that had essentially garbage on it. Not fun at all. Went back to Fedora and had a working installation up in an hour.
                            You must've picked the Net install iso, or selected the option in the ncurses install that the packages should be downloaded over the net. The Arch Devs have ALWAYS (Since 2010 when I found Linux and Arch) had an iso available that had the base set of necessary packages on disc because for a long time wifi adapters were very hit or miss under linux.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                              Single-package upgrades aren't supported in Arch? If so, my only comment is Y-U-C-K!
                              Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                              They are supported with some caveats, library updates that require apps to be recompiled are handled by recompiling the app against the new library and pushing out an update for the app and the library at once. If you only upgrade 1 or the other you can get mismatches which would make the app segfault or SYMBOL_NOT_FOUND or other errors.
                              Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant "supported" as in "officially supported", aka "feel free to file bugs against it or ask for help on the forums," in which case "unsupported" would be "you can do that if you want, but don't ask for help if something breaks."

                              Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                              1- You don't need a network connection to install *buntu or Debian, unless you use the netboot installer (which you won't end up doing without knowing).
                              Thanks for clearing that up. I knew about Debian, but I wasn't sure about Ubuntu.

                              Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                              2- A performance change DOES NOT go into a regular update: it's a feature, and features are for point releases.
                              I think, if packages need to be pulled from internet repos, the problem in general is more about not being able to maintain a control test environment. Changes in package versions can result in inadvertent performance changes, regardless of specific nuances of a distro's packaging policy. A use case for control environments in benchmarking can be, say, an upstream developer wishes to track his/her progress in performance optimizations over a multi-year period - in that case, it's more informative to use the exact same target system for benchmarking against.

                              But I guess that problem can be solved by snapshot images of the repos. In fact, that fixes the problem with rolling release distros, too.

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                              • #30
                                pacman -Syu upgrades the whole system pacman -S package name upgrades a program.. You don't have to upgrade and in fact can make your own packages if you only want certain things!!! Arch isn't hard, it's a good distro that gets undue praise and ridicule. Gentoo, slackware and arch are 3 very awesome distros that scare people with reputation. Want to see? Try them out it's free.

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