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Fenrus Linux: A Distro For Performance, Developers

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  • #31
    Originally posted by fenrus View Post
    If Fenrus Linux would also get 100 FPS, the score would thus be 200%, however, for the purpose of showing a delta, 100% is subtracted (hence the "delta") and the score will 'only' be "100%" in the graph.
    If Fenrus Linux would get 25 FPS, the score would be 50%, but the delta would be 50% - 100% = -50% in the graph.
    Why bother with the subtraction? It doesn't really make the graphs any easier to read. In fact, why not put the result (fenrus's score/best other score) on a log scale? Then some of the results with large changes like noise-level-1.1.0 would be easier to read.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Cyborg16 View Post
      Why bother with the subtraction? It doesn't really make the graphs any easier to read. In fact, why not put the result (fenrus's score/best other score) on a log scale? Then some of the results with large changes like noise-level-1.1.0 would be easier to read.
      it makes "the same" be "zero".
      A lot of people really do not like graphs without the zero axis there; and if the axis would have to always span 0 - 100 then it becomes useless to see small changes.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
        Do you happen to have a link to any video of this talk?
        I don't think this one was recorded unfortunately.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by chrisb View Post
          Are the little hover-dots the test results on Fenrus as someone suggested above? If so, how come the plotted line is smooth? ie. hover on systemd-boot-kernel and you see one single performance jump around Feb 18th or so, but the curve rises up gradually over 2 weeks as if performance was slowly changing every day. It looks like a line of best fit? The problem with that is it doesn't show change very well - in these kind of metrics change tends to be instant rather than gradual.

          So systemd-boot-userspace really is 300 times faster on Fenrus? And systemd-boot-total is 70 times faster?

          Which distributions are you currently testing? Would it be possible to do some graphs directly comparing them, eg. plotting Fenrus vs Ubuntu vs Fedora vs Gentoo, so we can see what the "best of the rest" actually is, and which distributions are best for performance?

          I am curious if there really are significant differences and potential gains to be made, because most benchmarks I have seen suggest there is little real difference between competing modern distros. But this could be because the benchmarks are designed to be tests of the hardware (bound by CPU, GPU, disk IO etc.) rather than tests of distributions.
          the colored dots are the average results for the release in question. there are also tiny black dots which are the results of each individual PTS test (so sometimes you see a "smear" of them, meaning high variation)
          I've been trying various fit functions and am still struggling with finding something sensible that deals with steps well, while still filtering out some of the noise.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by fenrus View Post
            I don't think this one was recorded unfortunately.
            It might be useful to replicate the information presented in the talk somewhere in the fenrus linux site then. I am curious to see the technical details.

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            • #36
              waste of time

              this thing is as alpha as alpha gets


              why the fuck is it being promoted in phoronix since it's like 2 years away from being anything decent?


              a better question

              why is intel wasting time experimenting with distros and packages, should be working on the drivers that's what they should be doing, bunch of good for nothings, hey ive me 70% of thw windows driver performance and I won't complain no more

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
                waste of time

                this thing is as alpha as alpha gets


                why the fuck is it being promoted in phoronix since it's like 2 years away from being anything decent?


                a better question

                why is intel wasting time experimenting with distros and packages, should be working on the drivers that's what they should be doing, bunch of good for nothings, hey ive me 70% of thw windows driver performance and I won't complain no more
                since you claim it is alpha... I assume you tried it?

                you did not read the website though since this is not an Intel project.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by ryao View Post
                  If I recall, the person behind this has a forum account called fenrus. Anyway, he should look into using ZFS and DTrace.
                  What for? I can agree (in some part) for zfs, but who needs dtrace?

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                  • #39
                    But how to install fenrus ? I cannot mount that image or write to dvd cause it has 20Gb ...

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                    • #40
                      Performance a la Intel

                      Originally posted by fenrus View Post
                      yeah I'll try to clarify the page tonight, clearly it's not well done right/clear enough right now; thanks for the feedback.

                      let me give a specific (but made up) example.
                      Say some test gives frames-per-second (e.g. a higher-is-better test).
                      And lets say, Fedora 17 is the best-of-the-rest at 50 frames per second.

                      If Fenrus Linux would also get 100 FPS, the score would thus be 200%, however, for the purpose of showing a delta, 100% is subtracted (hence the "delta") and the score will 'only' be "100%" in the graph.
                      If Fenrus Linux would get 25 FPS, the score would be 50%, but the delta would be 50% - 100% = -50% in the graph.
                      Several people is here complaining why you are using this method.

                      Well, your combination of a percentage with a baseline has a very interesting result for a distro marketed "for performance". If Fenrus is twice faster than distro B then the graph reads 100%, but if the distro B is twice faster than Fenrus the graph reads -50% (instead of -100%).

                      This means that average Joe will be reading on the graphs that Fenrus is, wow!, 100% faster regarding some test but only a 50% slower regarding another test, and he will be taking Fenrus to be a much faster distro when the reality would be that Fenrus and the other distro are on pair 2:1 vs 1:2 regarding both tests.
                      Last edited by juanrga; 03-25-2013, 07:51 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by mir3x View Post
                        But how to install fenrus ? I cannot mount that image or write to dvd cause it has 20Gb ...
                        u can't install it only boot and session
                        why can't you mount the img, u using vmware? u could always use a 32g usb pen ... he has no servers so he dumped all the software on the img


                        "This means that average Joe will be reading on the graphs that Fenrus is, wow!, 100% faster regarding some test but only a 50% slower regarding another test, and he will be taking Fenrus to be a much faster distro when the reality would be that Fenrus and the other distro are on pair 2:1 vs 1:2 regarding both tests"


                        it's called marketing, if he said "hey guys check my linux distro 1111" no one would care but since he has all these graphs that you look and go "no way" many more people will try it.


                        I still feel it's 2 early for this guy to be pimping this
                        Last edited by Pallidus; 03-26-2013, 07:12 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by juanrga View Post
                          This means that average Joe will be reading on the graphs that Fenrus is, wow!, 100% faster regarding some test but only a 50% slower regarding another test, and he will be taking Fenrus to be a much faster distro when the reality would be that Fenrus and the other distro are on pair 2:1 vs 1:2 regarding both tests.
                          Good thing this distro isn't for Average Joe!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
                            it's called marketing
                            My worry was about the non-symmetric nature of the graphs. Google "misleading graphs"!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by randomizer View Post
                              Good thing this distro isn't for Average Joe!
                              In case that anyone did not notice, there was some sarcasm in the post.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by juanrga View Post
                                My worry was about the non-symmetric nature of the graphs. Google "misleading graphs"!
                                I've been thinking about this, how to fix it, and I haven't figured it out yet. In some way, "-50%" indicates "half as bad", and "+100%" is "twice as high". It also allows me to do math on the data points (the average of 25 fps and 75% fps is 50fps, and that math works also in -50% and +50%)

                                the primary objective for the graphs (for me at least) is to see if there's a regression, or an improvement, compared to a previous series of builds.
                                I do want to keep the graphs useful for that.

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