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Ubuntu Plans To Move To Systemd's Logind

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  • Ubuntu Plans To Move To Systemd's Logind

    Phoronix: Ubuntu Plans To Move To Systemd's Logind

    While Ubuntu developers still are set on continuing to use their own Upstart event-based init daemon rather than the widely-used systemd, the developers at Canonical are planning to begin using systemd's logind component...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMyMDE

  • #2
    Ok at this point, it's all WTF to me. They do what they want, who even gives a crap anymore...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dee. View Post
      Ok at this point, it's all WTF to me. They do what they want, who even gives a crap anymore...
      Their decisions are quite strange. At first MIR has no advantage over Wayland and now they want some part from systemd which is way better than upstart. I think they just don't have enough courage to admit upstart is worse.

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      • #4
        So Many Changes All At Once

        Ok so Canonical has always gone ahead and added their own differentiators to the Ubuntu ecosystem - things like Upstart and Unity in Ubuntu itself, and things like Launchpad and Ubuntu One as revolving around and enhancing Ubuntu, but they've always done a little bit at a time. Now they're simultaneously developing multiple separate systems (at least until they start making progress on their convergence goals), developing their own display server, contributing resources to help new software like Steam come to Linux, continuing to maintain and evolve software that hasn't been widely adopted outside Ubuntu, talking about switching to a rolling release model, and now this? Does Canonical have an infinite credit line or something? I thought they still weren't profitable. First: do they really have the means by which they can support so many projects at once? And second, even if they have the money to undertake this much all at once, isn't so many changes all at the same time just a recipe for corporate and engineering confusion, and thus disaster?

        I mean, shouldn't they at some point just say, "Fsck controlling everything, let's go back to letting someone else do the work on some of these subsystems." Granted, they can't keep using ConsoleKit if it's unmaintained, and forking it or taking over maintenance themselves is not the solution to being stretched out like this, but rather than throw energy into new stuff while they're still working out core issues with the old stuff, that to me is just, I don't know, crazy. If they're cherry-picking systemd components, wouldn't it be smarter to dump Upstart for systemd completely, take a little bit of time making sure that they integrate systemd correctly and that it does what they want it to, and then redirect the resources previously lost on Upstart towards one of their other projects?

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        • #5
          Why not maintain it themselves then? Or fork it, or create an alternative? They think they have what it takes to create an alternative to Wayland, so why not Consolekit too?

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          • #6
            To me, it's not clear that systemd is superior for all use cases.
            Specifically, if I use system startup scripts, I expect that they will be ready ahead of time (at the earliest opportunity).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
              To me, it's not clear that systemd is superior for all use cases.
              Specifically, if I use system startup scripts, I expect that they will be ready ahead of time (at the earliest opportunity).
              System startup scripts?? Like custom ones? Its actually better to use systemd then...dump them in /etc, and those will override anything in /usr. You get your custom startup file, with a sane default backup, and you dont have to muck with symlinks or backup files or anything.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                To me, it's not clear that systemd is superior for all use cases.
                Specifically, if I use system startup scripts, I expect that they will be ready ahead of time (at the earliest opportunity).
                Why can't you just have your scripts with Before=sysinit.target? It means they run as soon as systemd starts.
                System startup scripts?? Like custom ones? Its actually better to use systemd then...dump them in /etc, and those will override anything in /usr. You get your custom startup file, with a sane default backup, and you dont have to muck with symlinks or backup files or anything.
                I agree with this. After using systemd for a year, if I need to write a boot script, it is very intuitive to just specify wants=, before=, after=, and requires= in a .service file to run an arbitrary script I have elsewhere in the fs. It doesn't hurt that I hate bash syntax and prefer writing scripts in python, even if I have to use subprocess a bit, and if I write a service file the actual script can be in any language easily.
                Last edited by zanny; 03-07-2013, 03:06 AM.

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                • #9
                  Maybe canonical noticed the bad pr they got from the mir debacle, and now they're trying to be like "look, we're not redesigning everything, we can still use components that are made by others"...

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                  • #10
                    In a month we will be reading an article on Phoronix with the title: Ubuntu Plans To Move to Systemd

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dee. View Post
                      Maybe canonical noticed the bad pr they got from the mir debacle, and now they're trying to be like "look, we're not redesigning everything, we can still use components that are made by others"...
                      logind was accepted before Mir went public. What really goes on is Canonical adapting because they wont spend time on maintaning stuff. It appears Canonical can only be tamed by putting more stuff into systemds tree. Anyway systemds tree is populated by redhat, intel and linux foundation devs now. Wayland to systemd? It could happen..

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                      • #12
                        I recently switch from OpenRC to systemd on my Gentoo system and the difference is incredible. I don't see why anyone would want to stick with upstart.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nukem View Post
                          I recently switch from OpenRC to systemd on my Gentoo system and the difference is incredible. I don't see why anyone would want to stick with upstart.
                          Why? Maybe you don't know the Canonical opinion about it: 100% control of the project.
                          Canonical just wait that you mature your work, when it performs good and it is ready, they fork it and continue the work in house.
                          Why talk with the project leader and his community when you can fork and do everything you want?
                          The dictator don't ask, the dictator command and conquer.
                          But if you haven't the people for continue that project in the right direction, after 1 or 2 years, the original project became better than the canonical fork and then they jump on the original and fork it again, or look to another project and fork it as well.
                          In both cases, no contribution will arrive upstream.
                          Contribution upstream? Never! This is the canonical's brand mark.

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                          • #14
                            It really sucks that everything is dependent on systemd now.

                            udev, logind, pam, etc.
                            It just feels like a big monolithic mess where components cant be interchanged.

                            I heard some talks before about something about GNOME depend on systemd?
                            Whats next, PulseAudio depend on it too?

                            Just one big monolithic stack.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                              It really sucks that everything is dependent on systemd now.

                              udev, logind, pam, etc.
                              It just feels like a big monolithic mess where components cant be interchanged.

                              I heard some talks before about something about GNOME depend on systemd?
                              Whats next, PulseAudio depend on it too?

                              Just one big monolithic stack.
                              Well, it is more like a number components working together consistently. It is much better than the mess that is system startup scripts written in bash.

                              Now we have a central place to handle authentication, session management, automatic multi-seat, screen locking, suspend, hibernate and shutdown/reboot with policy management. A few days ago I tried to shutdown the computer from a virtual terminal and systemd asked me my password. I am amazed that policy management works all the way from the terminal to the graphical interface properly. None of this could be done without a central mechanism.

                              And don't get me started writing initscripts using hundreds of lines stupid bash script compared to approximately ten lines in a systemd service file.

                              I am no way affiliated with systemd, but I am sure systemd is one of the best things that has happened to linux, for a very very long while.

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