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Ubuntu Plans To Move To Systemd's Logind

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  • #11
    Originally posted by dee. View Post
    Maybe canonical noticed the bad pr they got from the mir debacle, and now they're trying to be like "look, we're not redesigning everything, we can still use components that are made by others"...
    logind was accepted before Mir went public. What really goes on is Canonical adapting because they wont spend time on maintaning stuff. It appears Canonical can only be tamed by putting more stuff into systemds tree. Anyway systemds tree is populated by redhat, intel and linux foundation devs now. Wayland to systemd? It could happen..

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    • #12
      I recently switch from OpenRC to systemd on my Gentoo system and the difference is incredible. I don't see why anyone would want to stick with upstart.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by nukem View Post
        I recently switch from OpenRC to systemd on my Gentoo system and the difference is incredible. I don't see why anyone would want to stick with upstart.
        Why? Maybe you don't know the Canonical opinion about it: 100% control of the project.
        Canonical just wait that you mature your work, when it performs good and it is ready, they fork it and continue the work in house.
        Why talk with the project leader and his community when you can fork and do everything you want?
        The dictator don't ask, the dictator command and conquer.
        But if you haven't the people for continue that project in the right direction, after 1 or 2 years, the original project became better than the canonical fork and then they jump on the original and fork it again, or look to another project and fork it as well.
        In both cases, no contribution will arrive upstream.
        Contribution upstream? Never! This is the canonical's brand mark.

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        • #14
          It really sucks that everything is dependent on systemd now.

          udev, logind, pam, etc.
          It just feels like a big monolithic mess where components cant be interchanged.

          I heard some talks before about something about GNOME depend on systemd?
          Whats next, PulseAudio depend on it too?

          Just one big monolithic stack.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by uid313 View Post
            It really sucks that everything is dependent on systemd now.

            udev, logind, pam, etc.
            It just feels like a big monolithic mess where components cant be interchanged.

            I heard some talks before about something about GNOME depend on systemd?
            Whats next, PulseAudio depend on it too?

            Just one big monolithic stack.
            Well, it is more like a number components working together consistently. It is much better than the mess that is system startup scripts written in bash.

            Now we have a central place to handle authentication, session management, automatic multi-seat, screen locking, suspend, hibernate and shutdown/reboot with policy management. A few days ago I tried to shutdown the computer from a virtual terminal and systemd asked me my password. I am amazed that policy management works all the way from the terminal to the graphical interface properly. None of this could be done without a central mechanism.

            And don't get me started writing initscripts using hundreds of lines stupid bash script compared to approximately ten lines in a systemd service file.

            I am no way affiliated with systemd, but I am sure systemd is one of the best things that has happened to linux, for a very very long while.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by uid313 View Post
              It really sucks that everything is dependent on systemd now.

              udev, logind, pam, etc.
              It just feels like a big monolithic mess where components cant be interchanged.

              I heard some talks before about something about GNOME depend on systemd?
              Whats next, PulseAudio depend on it too?

              Just one big monolithic stack.
              It is called CoreOS (sans Gnome stuff). And it is great, because it minimizes the maintaince burden. If YOU want to do something exotic just pull the sysd tree and cherry pick what you want. And if YOU dont like the crazy maintenance burden of extracting modules from the three, the YOU know WHY the systemd tree people DONT like to do extra loops of maintenance. So yeah YOU and out-standard-fuckers like Canonical can jump from a bridge, and please chain yourself to the crazy eudev forkster clowns as well.
              Last edited by funkSTAR; 03-07-2013, 05:54 AM.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by nukem View Post
                I recently switch from OpenRC to systemd on my Gentoo system and the difference is incredible. I don't see why anyone would want to stick with upstart.
                So you have not used upstart and yet have an outspoken opinion about it?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by aavci View Post
                  A few days ago I tried to shutdown the computer from a virtual terminal and systemd asked me my password. I am amazed that policy management works all the way from the terminal to the graphical interface properly. None of this could be done without a central mechanism.
                  How peculiar, I could've sworn "sudo poweroff" has always asked me for my password, a decade before systemd...

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
                    logind was accepted before Mir went public. What really goes on is Canonical adapting because they wont spend time on maintaning stuff. It appears Canonical can only be tamed by putting more stuff into systemds tree. Anyway systemds tree is populated by redhat, intel and linux foundation devs now. Wayland to systemd? It could happen..
                    That's what pisses me off. Unilke Red Hat, SUSE and others, Canonical only maintains their own components with CLA. They use the community to get free labor, but they hardly ever contribute anything back upstream that is not Ubuntu specific (so the maintenance is handed over to the community).

                    I hope they admit defeat and adopt systemd someday.
                    Last edited by newwen; 03-07-2013, 05:57 AM.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by curaga View Post
                      How peculiar, I could've sworn "sudo poweroff" has always asked me for my password, a decade before systemd...
                      The point is, you dont have to write sudo. It will check the policy and do "the right thing", shutting down right away, asking for a password or simply give an error.

                      Not a big thing, it just shows the integration level. But I guess you don't like policykit either, then you are simply not in the intended audience.

                      Also, I didn't say that I was amazed because it asked for a password, I was amazed at the "integration level of the policy management". sudo has nothing to do with policy management.
                      Last edited by aavci; 03-07-2013, 06:31 AM.

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