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Ubuntu Looking Again At Rolling Release Model

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  • Ubuntu Looking Again At Rolling Release Model

    Phoronix: Ubuntu Looking Again At Rolling Release Model

    Canonical developers are again taking a serious look at moving Ubuntu over to a rolling-release model. Under this form, there would be the Ubuntu Long-Term Support (LTS) releases every two years but between that new packages would be pushed out on a rolling-release basis...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMxNDY

  • #2
    I really hope they do this, 6 month release cycle is very flawed. the interim releases are usually shoved out way before they can be considered "ready", and personally I much prefer rolling release then having to use a bunch of ppa's to keep things up to date, and doing major upgrades every 6 months.

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    • #3
      They should definitely go this the rolling release model.

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      • #4
        Well i think rolling release model is ok but they should keep that lts still going too. I think one big flaw on rolling release is that the packages get released too early and lack documentation/examples or ready configuration files and many distros just keep changing the configuration form. So the old config doesnt work out-of-the-box.

        Thou its undeestandable if the package is under heavy maintenance but thats just the thing that makes release cycle distros better compared to rolling release. Trying to say that packages that gets released via rolling arent well enough tested.

        And to be noted using chakra linux which basicly arch linux port. Kind of disliked arch as they didnt bother to write any good systemd config/support wiki for a change and ppl just needed to do everything by themself. Chakra had it all ready and has way more stable kde support.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dehir View Post
          Well i think rolling release model is ok but they should keep that lts still going too. I think one big flaw on rolling release is that the packages get released too early and lack documentation/examples or ready configuration files and many distros just keep changing the configuration form. So the old config doesnt work out-of-the-box.

          Thou its undeestandable if the package is under heavy maintenance but thats just the thing that makes release cycle distros better compared to rolling release. Trying to say that packages that gets released via rolling arent well enough tested.

          And to be noted using chakra linux which basicly arch linux port. Kind of disliked arch as they didnt bother to write any good systemd config/support wiki for a change and ppl just needed to do everything by themself. Chakra had it all ready and has way more stable kde support.
          I'm not sure why everyone assumes a rolling release means packages will be released early. To me rolling release means, release the packages when they're ready. Under the current 6 month release cycle, changes are hurried and forced due to the 6 month deadline. A rolling release means there is no such deadline(it would basically be a 2 year deadline).

          As a side benefit it also means users might not have to wait 6 months to get an updated version of LibreOffice, Empathy, Transmission, etc. The solution to this now is to have ten billion PPAs, which I really hate. Many packages, especially top level applications, are inconsequential to update. For them to be held to a 6 month update cycle is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

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          • #6
            Correct me if I'm wrong...

            ...but I think they are talking about "Rolling Release" but not in a way most people expect it.

            They seem to be describing something like a very long beta period, where packages are upgraded frequently, and things can land "whenever they're ready", but don't seem to describe much in a way of control and testing of stability. As in "if I have auto-update on, will my pc boot tomorrow?".

            Daily Quality means that developers can ensure their components are stable
            and useful before they upload, and our processes protect us from most
            mistakes these days.
            Honestly, if what we get is a choice between LTS and works-most-of-the-time-beta, most people will go LTS. So instead of having new versions of software 6 months apart, it will now be 2 years? Hm...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by [Knuckles] View Post
              Honestly, if what we get is a choice between LTS and works-most-of-the-time-beta, most people will go LTS. So instead of having new versions of software 6 months apart, it will now be 2 years? Hm...
              You don't seem to understand what a rolling release model is. It is obvious you have never used a rolling release distro like Arch...

              It seems there are many myths widely spread in the Linux world. One such myth is that the latest software is unstable, while it is not. Alpha and beta versions of upstream software are indeed unstable at times, but when something is released as a stable version it is stable, period. Minus minor bugs that most of the time existed in previous versions too...

              People seem to think that Debian for example is more stable as a system than Arch, while it is not in any way... In fact, when a distro uses 2 year old software, it lacks many features and bug/security fixes upstream has worked on... You cannot depend on distro maintainers to look at the source of every package and backport all the fixes... It is insane, and leads to many troubles...

              Stability also depends on what is changed. Sure, using a brand new kernel, Xorg or Mesa version might lead to new bugs, but using the latest Firefox/Libreoffice/Transmission etc doesn't affect total system stability at all.

              So there won't be a works-most-of-the-time-beta as you said. There will be a works-like-the-latest-LTS-plus-it-has-newer-end-user-software... And this is something most desktop Ubuntu users would certainly welcome...

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              • #8
                I really like this Idea

                As it is I'm using PPA's and Beta software all the time, when it comes to technology I like to be at the bleeding (even if unstable) edge

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
                  You don't seem to understand what a rolling release model is. It is obvious you have never used a rolling release distro like Arch...

                  It seems there are many myths widely spread in the Linux world. One such myth is that the latest software is unstable, while it is not. Alpha and beta versions of upstream software are indeed unstable at times, but when something is released as a stable version it is stable, period. Minus minor bugs that most of the time existed in previous versions too...

                  People seem to think that Debian for example is more stable as a system than Arch, while it is not in any way... In fact, when a distro uses 2 year old software, it lacks many features and bug/security fixes upstream has worked on... You cannot depend on distro maintainers to look at the source of every package and backport all the fixes... It is insane, and leads to many troubles...

                  Stability also depends on what is changed. Sure, using a brand new kernel, Xorg or Mesa version might lead to new bugs, but using the latest Firefox/Libreoffice/Transmission etc doesn't affect total system stability at all.

                  So there won't be a works-most-of-the-time-beta as you said. There will be a works-like-the-latest-LTS-plus-it-has-newer-end-user-software... And this is something most desktop Ubuntu users would certainly welcome...
                  Because more updates and newer versions must mean unstable... right? I agree people call Arch "bleeding edge" all the time and as someone who used/uses Arch for a good few years on the testing repo's aka the "unstable" repo's I've hardly have had any problems. Arch has been by far the most stable and enjoyable Linux distro thus far that I've used over the years. I think it would be perfect if it just had an graphical installer so I could actually recommend people use it.

                  I think Ubuntu switching to a rolling release model would be a great idea so long as they do it right. I like having up to date software as a user and as a developer I like to have the latest libraries without having to compile them myself.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
                    You don't seem to understand what a rolling release model is. It is obvious you have never used a rolling release distro like Arch...
                    Let's just say I had used and gotten bored of gentoo BEFORE ubuntu & arch ever existed.

                    The thing is, I can't honestly recommend the rolling release to a friend or family member if it doesn't get testing. Have you met KDE .0 stable releases? I'm not talking 4.0 trolling here, but even running 4.10.0 I've ran into some issues already. Other packages might be better or worse. But users shouldn't be the ones to find out.

                    Just saying "if upstream kicks it out, it's ready" is not an acceptable form of testing. Of course ubuntu is free and I can't make them do what I want, but I'm commenting that I dislike this plan if there won't be steps taken so that stability is not affected compared to running a non-lts release now.
                    Last edited by [Knuckles]; 02-28-2013, 01:29 PM. Reason: typo

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                    • #11
                      I can't believe this "debate" is still a topic of discussion... obviously all consumer devices should have rolling-release for user-space software. The kernel & friends also need to be semi-rolling-release (read "when they're ready" NOT "when they're released"). Ideally, user-space software should be released as soon as it comes out, but the last few versions should be kept available (per-package) so people aren't forced to updated (or can roll-back) in situations where a bug was introduced, or core functionality was changed.

                      The only reason for non-rolling models is long-term server security and stability.. but that's a completely separate world, with it's own motives.

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                      • #12
                        Oh please make this happen. Could make Ubuntu relevant again

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                        • #13
                          So why not use the Chrome/Firefox model? Have a LTS, Stable, Beta, Alpha version at the same time. Nerds can run Alpha and immediately report issues. Geeks can run Beta and have a system that works but still can have bugs that they report. Your mother can run Stable and have up2date software with almost no problems. Grandma and Enterprises can run the ancient LTS that has been tested for years by nerds, geeks and mother.

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                          • #14
                            Ways to make Ubuntu great:

                            1. Switch to rolling release. Ubuntu installs NVIDIA 304.51 as "current". F*cking LOL!
                            2. Make Live CDs that use Net Installation. Having to install old packages just to up date them later on is retarded beyond belief.
                            3. Bring back Jockey and have it pop up in peoples face like it used to. Windows users trying out Ubuntu for TF2 often installed drivers from the vendors website and complained about how complicated it is only because Canonical thought it would be a good idea to hide the driver installation in the Software center in a Menu.

                            No one who has ever used a RR distro would switch back to the Ubuntu release model. RR doesn't mean things are just pushed through. Arch Linux uses the [testing] repo for everything that could potentially break your system. I have never had any problems after an update. Linux 3.8 is not out yet, because it causes some problems with the nvidia module for example.
                            Last edited by blackout23; 02-28-2013, 02:33 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Canonical should just wait for 14.04 LTE before putting it on mobiles, and then only use the 64 bit version on Cortex A57 and A53 chips, or other ARMv8 chips. It would make their life so much easier with upgrades later on, and they'd only need to focus on the 64 bit platform for mobile. I can't believe they are going to support both, just because they want to release the devices a few months earlier. But whatever. It's just not something I would've done.

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