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Alan Cox Calls Fedora 18 "The Worst Red Hat Distro"

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  • #61
    Why Not Try Mageia?

    I agree that Fedora goes too far with the minimalization concept, but that's because the design goal seems to be the corporate desktop. Just look at all the fiddling one must do to enable the extra repos and make the installation consumer friendly. It reminds me of tweaking a Windows 98 install.

    And moving to Ubuntu? Why learn a different way of system management and packaging when you already know the way the RedHat/Fedora is _supposed_ to work? That makes no sense.

    I installed the current beta for Mageia3 and it went without a hitch; everything just worked. Other than the longer release cycle, I have found nothing to complain about with Mageia.

    Mandrake -> Mandriva -> Mageia have always been about RedHat "done better". It's worth checking out if you are dissatisfied with Fedora.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
      So now I have to install extensions or write them myself just so I can do what I used to do before? AND THIS IS FUCKING PROGRESS?????????????????
      Which functionality? Given your knowledge of software, you can make your own or hire somebody to create that functionality.
      Only progress is to calm down, think, analyze and ask. Until several posters whether they whine or know understood how to properly formulate a constructive critics, their noise will fall into deaf ear. It is very easy to shout about a particular subject yet difficult to deep looking into details.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
        Adam, versions numbers mean bubkus as nobody stipulates what a version represents. After all, this is the 18th version of Fedora.
        Neither anaconda nor fedup is actually versioned 1.0. I meant 'they're 1.0s' in the notional sense that people understand that: they are first versions, and first versions of just about anything are usually fragile. This was not communicated by version numbers but with text right in the release announcement:

        "While the new installer should work well for most users in most configurations, there are inevitably a few teething problems in the first release of such a major revision: see the introductory guide to the new installer which includes a list of known limitations of the new installer in Fedora 18, and known significant bugs for more information."

        If you're going to install an entire frickin' computer operating system on your system without even reading the release announcement...well.
        Last edited by AdamW; 01-24-2013, 01:25 AM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by hoyt View Post
          I agree that Fedora goes too far with the minimalization concept, but that's because the design goal seems to be the corporate desktop. Just look at all the fiddling one must do to enable the extra repos and make the installation consumer friendly. It reminds me of tweaking a Windows 98 install.
          Um. Where do you get 'minimalization'? Nothing about newUI or F18 in general has anything to do with 'minimalization'. And Fedora not providing non-free or patent-encumbered software has nothing to do with 'the corporate desktop' (which is absolutely not Fedora's target in any way, good Lord) and everything to do with Fedora's principles.

          I have to wonder, why do people make wild-ass and inevitably wrong guesses like this? None of this is private information. We have a whole frickin' wiki page on why we do not include non-free software: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items . The new UI design was extensively documented and blogged about in advance of release, and nothing at all in any of that stuff says anything about 'minimalization'.

          Originally posted by hoyt View Post
          I installed the current beta for Mageia3 and it went without a hitch; everything just worked. Other than the longer release cycle, I have found nothing to complain about with Mageia.

          Mandrake -> Mandriva -> Mageia have always been about RedHat "done better". It's worth checking out if you are dissatisfied with Fedora.
          Having worked for both Mandriva and Red Hat, on Mandrake, Mandriva and Fedora, I can personally assure you that Mandr* was not about Red Hat 'done better'. It is an independent distribution with a focus on providing the best immediately usable and friendly distribution at a given time. Fedora has a somewhat different focus on building new technologies and refusing to compromise on principles of freedom and engineering. Both approaches have merits; one is not the other 'done right'.

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          • #65
            Well, you know those Fedora developers, common sense is probably encumbered by a patent therefore they can't use it.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
              So now I have to install extensions or write them myself just so I can do what I used to do before? AND THIS IS FUCKING PROGRESS?????????????????
              No. By default if you have more than one user on the system Log Off automatically shows up as does Switch User. If you want the option with only one user this is all you have to do:

              Always show the "Log Out" entry in the user menu
              Since GNOME 3.6, the "Log Out" entry in the user menu is only shown when multiple non-root users are present in the system.
              To always enable this entry, run the following command from a terminal:
              # gsettings set org.gnome.shell always-show-log-out true
              You can also change this in dconf-editor: Navigate to org.gnome.shell, then check the "always-show-log-out" checkbox.
              Then, restart the GNOME shell:
              Alt+F2
              r
              Enter


              This really isn't THAT hard. You would think for those of us (not speaking to you directly) who compile programs, configure wine, or hell give me something (install RAID?). I don't know but this...
              Code:
              gsettings set org.gnome.shell always-show-log-out true
              ...isn't that hard. It's ONE (uno, ein, un) line. For pete's sake it's takes one line and a password prompt to log in via SSH and somehow all of us make it day to day. We've gotten to a point now with GS that some of the complaints are just ... I don't even know what to call them anymore because they aren't based in reality. Even if someone had to install an extension for this "feature" which you don't, it would take seconds to do. I'm not kidding it would take you longer to pee than to install an extension. Goodness gracious.
              Last edited by kaczu; 01-24-2013, 02:58 AM.

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              • #67
                Arch

                Happy with the Rolling Release. Just installed once.
                So why Fedora or Ubuntu ?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                  Congratulations, I didn't think it would be possible for you to minimize and dismiss customers' complaints so easily. Keep enjoying the rockstar developer lifestyle.
                  I don't think you understand what a 'customer' is. All unsatisfied Fedora 18 customers are, of course, entitled to all their money back.

                  What I wrote was a perfectly genuine reply to a reasonable question. Why did we not wait until the Fedora 18 installer was perfect before releasing it? Answer: because Fedora 18 is not just the installer. Making it perfect would have been several more months of development time, during all of which, work on F19 would be held up to some degree and all the other stuff in F18 would not be reaching our user base. We shipped F18 when the installer was in an acceptable state (as defined by us), not when it was perfect. We never claimed it was perfect; in fact we explicitly warned that it was imperfect and provided links to ample documentation on both the new design and on the known issues in it.

                  BTW, my 'rockstar developer lifestyle' during F18 development involved two months of working on installer testing an average of 80 hours a week, including some weeks over 100 hours. It's SO MUCH DAMN FUN.
                  Last edited by AdamW; 01-24-2013, 03:25 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                    Well, you know those Fedora developers, common sense is probably encumbered by a patent therefore they can't use it.
                    Yet you wonder why those developers (if all) ignore you with that approach above. :sigh:

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                    • #70
                      Just want to thank AdamW for very insightful posts in this thread and all Fedora contributors for Fedora 18 release!

                      I had upgraded with fedup successfully, everything is working nice.

                      Thank you all very much again!

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                      • #71
                        People here are realy complaining about other people engineering new OS technologies for computer enthousiasts, and then giving it away for free.

                        Why be such a whiny douchebag and switch to Windows or Mac OS X?

                        Someone in this thread complained about a logout feature missing (there is a lock screen feature for that, incase you suffer from alzheimer), then gets an answer for fixing the missing feature, and then complaints about the fact that his wife is too stupid to apply it herself. Well, why don't you do it yourself, since you complained about it, IN THIS THREAD.

                        I symphasize with Adam for having to inject some common fscking sense into some adult toddlers.

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                        • #72
                          I'd like to echo the comments thanking Mr. Williamson for his posts and insight. Try not to let the others get you down, your presence here is greatly appreciated.

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                          • #73
                            Upgraded with fedup, no problems. Using LUKS, did not run into problems. It's odd there would be problems since it mostly does a package upgrade. OTOH, proprietary drivers are always problems on Fedora, I would recommend another OS distribution (called Windows 7) if you really insist on using some.

                            Did not use the installer, which doesn't look that good right now, not quite polished yet. Hopefully F19 will fix that.

                            The amount of childish whining here is always simply amazing, love the never ending G3 rants (while actually G3 is very good, if you want a bad "new" desktop, you should look at W8 instead)

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                              That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out. I can't believe some people are unable to grasp the logic especially due to their own blind hatred toward Gnome in some case.
                              Sorry, but it does make sense to have a log out, always, it means: close local applications, leave computer ready for remote access. (Also: restart X server gracefully)

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                              • #75
                                Err, childisch whining? [Bug 896010] Upgrade doesn't start for systems with more than one encrypted partitions

                                Definitelly installation/upgrade process needs lots of developers love to get straighted.
                                But let's give credit where it's due, after pains of install/upgrade this release seems to be really nice (leaving aside Gnome3 problems, it's Gnome there to fault not Fedora).
                                It's the first time I can use pre-release KDE (4.9.97 here) on my main system. Yep there are few annoyances, but no showstoppers.

                                Yup, there's lots of cases where you want to log out/in, like refreshing groups, leaving system on without logged users, switching DEs (yup to Gnome devs suprise there are other desktop enviroments) or GS session went bonkers and needs refresh.
                                Last edited by Xeno; 01-24-2013, 07:57 AM.

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