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Alan Cox Calls Fedora 18 "The Worst Red Hat Distro"

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  • #16
    I had a similarly buggy experience with Fedora 18. Apparently (and nobody told me this before the upgrade, because their wiki page wasn't and isn't properly written), FedUp is broken when it comes to systems with proprietary graphics drivers* or LUKS encryption, both of which I had. With the proprietary drivers*, the upgrade process shows nothing; it's just a black screen. When it came to the encryption, at some point it couldn't mount my partition, freaked out and immediately rebooted. Hosed my box.

    After some effort fixing everything, I'm then rewarded with the new less-usable-than-ever gnome-shell. I realize it's unfair to blame Fedora directly for that one, but at that point I was annoyed and decided to blow it up and install something else too.

    *It's a laptop and I need them for the battery life.

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    • #17
      I've had no particular problems with Fedora 18, but then I haven't used Anaconda since I got this laptop in 2009, and deal with a distribution upgrade the same way as with any other bunch of package updates - with the rpm command. The main Fedora 18 improvement is a name that's not as bad as "Beefy Miracle".

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      • #18
        Why is it only news when Allan Cox doesn't like something? I've never seen a article that goes "Allan Cox thinks that x-y.z is da bomb, yo"

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        • #19
          If you are a single user, you can't log out in Fedora 18. I know it is a default in Gnome 3 now, but I really wish the Fedora packagers would have taken the common sense steps of fixing that.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
            If you are a single user, you can't log out in Fedora 18. I know it is a default in Gnome 3 now, but I really wish the Fedora packagers would have taken the common sense steps of fixing that.
            That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out. I can't believe some people are unable to grasp the logic especially due to their own blind hatred toward Gnome in some case.
            Last edited by finalzone; 01-23-2013, 01:14 PM.

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            • #21
              you should COMPLAIN LOUDLY and FILE BUG REPORTS.
              Guess what - I did, for a long time. I even ran updates-testing.
              Truth is, most of the reports were closed by the end-of-life auto-close daemon without even beeing looked at by anyone.

              My conclusion is, that there are enough testers and the main problem is not testing but bug fixing.
              Therefore, I will simply wait 2-3 months after a new Fedora version has been released. The only downside is, Fedora installers in the release images are badly broken each time - so the big question is whether it installs in the first place before applying updates

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              • #22
                While I don't love the Anaconda changes, 64-bit Fedora 18 (KDE) has worked great for me. Maybe the problems you guys are having are coming from GNOME?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                  That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out. I can't believe some people are unable to grasp the logic especially due to their own blind hatred toward Gnome in some case.
                  Or it is just standard security and you want processes to run in the background (such as in a server environment.) Also, it doesn't appear when you install another desktop environment, that is how I found this out, so wrong on both counts.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                    That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environmententent nt i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out. I can't believe some people are unable to grasp the logic especially due to their own blind hatred toward Gnome in some case.
                    I have not used fedora 18 or gnome 3.6,so what you are saying is if you want to logout, you need to shut down or restart? I think there are valid reasons to logout, and can't imagine why that feature would be taken away.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                      With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out.
                      So in other words there is no allowance for shared computer in a household where the husband and wife have separate accounts?

                      In other words in a business setting we must allocate machines for every single individual even though we have three shifts?

                      Your mysterious use-case is only applicable in your mother's basement where nobody else can stand the smell of your dirty underwear.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
                        So in other words there is no allowance for shared computer in a household where the husband and wife have separate accounts?

                        In other words in a business setting we must allocate machines for every single individual even though we have three shifts?

                        Your mysterious use-case is only applicable in your mother's basement where nobody else can stand the smell of your dirty underwear.
                        I don't believe you read his comment fully. He said, "Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out."

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                        • #27
                          so it was basicly clear that fedora 18 is a crap-release, how can somebody be suprised about that?

                          Fedora releasedates:

                          15 2011-05-24
                          16 2011-11-08
                          17 2012-05-29
                          18 2013-01-15

                          19 will come then 2013-05-(20-30)

                          So they did postpone the release 2 months after the regualr release date. So it was clear that the screwed it up... maybe it was neccessary like they said because they had to change big parts to make it modular from a big chunk what was not modular, and there was no better transition possible.

                          I think they had 2 possible ways to deal with it, dont release it at all and with that, pull much work they made to make it somewhat stable to the trash. Who wants to do that? And start finally to focus on the 19 release to not screw that up again because they could not focus on that.

                          The 3rd way would be to release it when its done... come out then in 2 months with gnome 3.6 when anybody think its a old thing and nobody want it anymore...

                          Because of that I am at rawhide... I want gnome 3.8 stuff... fedora is supposed to have newer gnome-packages than ubuntu... if thats not true, wth should anybody use it? its THE Gnome-(shell) distribution...

                          So of course that is the shittiest release, 1.5 months delay and some big discussions about it, was not because all went perfectly... how stupid can some good developers be...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                            Or it is just standard security and you want processes to run in the background (such as in a server environment.) Also, it doesn't appear when you install another desktop environment, that is how I found this out, so wrong on both counts.
                            Which desktop environment do you try to install? You mention about server meaning you might likely run in terminal mode. (CTrl+ALT+F2). It appears you have encounter a bug so you can report it with provided screenshots.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                              That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out. I can't believe some people are unable to grasp the logic especially due to their own blind hatred toward Gnome in some case.
                              Sometimes it makes sense to kill and restart your session, e.g. for killing an unknown misbehaving process

                              This zealotry of Gnome devs removing features is bad.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MrRtd View Post
                                I have not used fedora 18 or gnome 3.6,so what you are saying is if you want to logout, you need to shut down or restart? I think there are valid reasons to logout, and can't imagine why that feature would be taken away.
                                If you have fully read the post, you would understand why logout is not needed when there is only one user and a desktop environment.

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