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OpenSUSE 12.3 Being Prepped With Numerous Changes

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  • OpenSUSE 12.3 Being Prepped With Numerous Changes

    Phoronix: OpenSUSE 12.3 Being Prepped With Numerous Changes

    The first developmental milestone release of the forthcoming openSUSE 12.3 was made publicly available today...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTIyNDM

  • #2
    I think it's sad

    One think I like about SUSE/OpenSUSE is that you could tell they knew how to write scripts. There just seemed to be a lot more *ix experience with them. With these new changes, they'll be as broken as the "other" distro. So what's their edge??

    Oh well... maybe that was the "other" distro's plans all along (talking about how to kill off OpenSUSE).

    Sad day...

    Comment


    • #3
      To me, openSUSE always felt kind of out-of-place to begin with.

      Debian/Ubuntu handles Deb-Apt
      Gentoo handles source-minimalism
      Arch handles binary-minimalism
      Fedora handles rpm-yum (now rpm-dnf)
      openSUSE handles rpm-yum...again?

      They ship "new stable" software so its not a Stability vs Newer issue like Debian vs Ubuntu. They make all the same choices that Fedora makes so its not "do their own thing" reason. KDE and Gnome integrate together a lot more nicely nowadays so "Pure QT!" systems arent as big of a deal. Its been a long time since I heard about SUSE Enterprise in any meaningful way so you cant even really say that "Well its the testbed for Suse" like you can for Fedora and RHEL. openSUSE to me always seemed like a distro without a purpose other than "Just because we CAN exist, we WILL exist"
      Last edited by Ericg; 11-08-2012, 07:39 PM. Reason: typo

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ericg View Post
        To me, openSUSE always felt kind of out-of-place to begin with.

        Debian/Ubuntu handles Deb-Apt
        Gentoo handles source-minimalism
        Arch handles binary-minimalism
        Fedora handles rpm-yum (now rpm-dnf)
        openSUSE handles rpm-yum...again?

        They ship "new stable" software so its not a Stability vs Newer issue like Debian vs Ubuntu. They make all the same choices that Fedora makes so its not "do their own thing" reason. KDE and Gnome integrate together a lot more nicely nowadays so "Pure QT!" systems arent as big of a deal. Its been a long time since I heard about SUSE Enterprise in any meaningful way so you cant even really say that "Well its the testbed for Suse" like you can for Fedora and RHEL. openSUSE to me always seemed like a distro without a purpose other than "Just because we CAN exist, we WILL exist"
        Opensuse doesn't use yum, and the fact that they use RPM doesn't make them the same as fedora. Also there's nothing "Pure QT" about opensuse, they offer both KDE and Gnome desktops.

        Comment


        • #5
          Homogeneity

          With every iteration of OpenSUSE the developers are stripping out unique powerful features that made Suse what it was and replacing them with generic Fedora/RH tech.

          http://news.opensuse.org/2012/11/08/...ready-for-you/
          The idiots want to abandon Zypper/Yast in favor of the excreble packagekit.
          They've almost completed gutting the init system to blindly follow Redhat of the cliff with Systemd etc etc.

          For god's sakes, If I wanted green Fedora then I would install fedora & download a green theme..

          For me it's the last decent independent user friendly distro left.
          When it becomes fully absorbed into the borg of Linux I have no answer left but go back to Mac etc.

          A damn shame but what can you do?
          Last edited by chris2kari; 11-08-2012, 09:32 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by chris2kari View Post
            The idiots want to abandon Zypper/Yast in favor of the excreble packagekit.
            I don't see anything about "abandon Zypper/Yast", I see refactoring of zypper to add capabilities (something that has been done a few times already). Packagekit is just another front end to package management (which was the whole idea behind packagekit)

            http://www.packagekit.org/pk-intro.html

            The actual nuts-and-bolts distro tool (yum, apt, conary, etc) is used by PackageKit using compiled and scripted helpers. PackageKit isn't meant to replace these tools, instead providing a common set of abstractions that can be used by standard GUI and text mode package managers.
            They've almost completed gutting the init system to blindly follow Redhat of the cliff with Systemd etc etc.
            This was again done to address a few issues. The init system is fine but does carry a lot of legacy payload. With most other distro's switching to Systemd this is actually a good thing as it becomes less distro dependent. One of the things that every one gripes about is linux's "fragmentation", this is just one way of minimizing the "fragmentation" impact. Plus SystemD does have it's advantages.
            Not to mention that it was one of the more requested items put forth by the opensuse community.

            For god's sakes, If I wanted green Fedora then I would install fedora & download a green theme..
            Redhat/Fedora have also followed SuSE leads in the past as well in areas such as the use of ALSA over OSS.

            For me it's the last decent independent user friendly distro left.
            When it becomes fully absorbed into the borg of Linux I have no answer left but go back to Mac etc.

            A damn shame but what can you do?
            SuSE also adopted RPM as their package type. That was brought out by Redhat as well but it still didn't mean that openSUSE was a spinoff of Redhat. Just that SuSE decided to use a good package system instead of relying on the same package system of it's parent distro Slackware.

            openSUSE is still a top contributor to many of the projects that it utilizes and is no stranger to adopting others innovations and incorporating it into their distro. That is one of the advantages of opensource operating systems. openSUSE still refines the desktop experience like no other and I personally have not seen another distro with the refinement of their desktops for example. I would only start to worry about openSUSE loosing it's identity and becoming a Fedora clones if they started adapting the likes of Anaconda (still hate that forever buggy thing).

            Comment


            • #7
              Indeed, to me it sounds that they are working on improving zypper, not replacing it. That might end up making Apper something better than an annoyance and ZMD-alike.

              And they still have all the unique features that really matter. YaST, SUSE Studio, the wealth of packages from OBS. And its releases are "new stable" as opposed to "rather unstable" of Fedora, so the niche is fairly well-defined.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                I don't see anything about "abandon Zypper/Yast", I see refactoring of zypper to add capabilities (something that has been done a few times already). Packagekit is just another front end to package management (which was the whole idea behind packagekit)
                Packagekit is rubbish.
                It has Gnome disease - ie everything is COMPLETELY hidden from the end user & it is full of bugs.
                Do a fresh install of OpenSUSE 12.2 & then try to add/remove some software & what do you get? Packagekit has locked it..
                Look on the bug trackers & mailings lists. The dev's repsonses to complaints about this is "oh we know about that.. it happens for some hours or so.."
                When pressed to fix the problem the response is "no, someone asked us to put that in so we are not taking it out"

                The only way to gain control of your system is to :

                1) open a terminal, kill packagekit,
                2) disable it from restarting,
                3) rebooting then
                4) rooting it out with zypper rm packagekit apper.
                5) Congratulate yourself on making OpenSUSE now usable.

                If you don't beleive me look at the huge number of threads on the forums, the bug trackers and the mailing lists!
                Ok moderator go stick your head back in the Fedora kool-aide.
                Last edited by chris2kari; 11-08-2012, 11:50 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've never had any major issues with packagekit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Final failure, useless junk, missed deadline.
                    Last edited by jumperdono; 11-09-2012, 03:14 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Opensuse 12.2 seemed like too much of a hybrid of old and new systems, such as systemd being introduced but only being used in parallel with the old sysvinit which retained control of many functions of the process. There are other examples of similar 'transitions' with multiple systems governing a single process.

                      Opensuse 12.3 will be most greatly appreciated if it completes this transition of these many new technologies leaving a stable and coherent base on which to build.

                      Chief amongst this bifurcated and inconsistent systems is package updating, specifically, the fact that suse has two largely separate systems for the process that conflict with each other:

                      https://features.opensuse.org/313151

                      This needs to be sorted out, leaving one coherent system to govern the package update process!

                      When the solution for this problem is being pondered it needs to weigh in the requirments of the new apper/appstream based opensuse app-store that really needs to finally arrive with 12.3:

                      https://features.opensuse.org/310778

                      Lots of fine work has been done to create the prerequisites of an opensuse app-store, not least of which was changes to packagekit i believe, now is the time to see the fruits of that labour.

                      With that said, other updates I like to see from opensuse 12.3 in march are; KDE 4.10, kernel 3.7, further Owncloud integration, and a green opensuse theme.

                      Looking forward to it.
                      Last edited by Jedibeeftrix; 11-09-2012, 04:18 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                        openSUSE handles rpm-yum...again?
                        No, see http://duncan.mac-vicar.com/2008/05/...-memory-usage/

                        Originally posted by chris2kari View Post
                        http://news.opensuse.org/2012/11/08/...ready-for-you/
                        The idiots want to abandon Zypper/Yast in favor of the excreble packagekit.
                        You clearly don't understand how PackageKit (and zypper) work.

                        Originally posted by chris2kari View Post
                        Do a fresh install of OpenSUSE 12.2 & then try to add/remove some software & what do you get? Packagekit has locked it.
                        I did this on monday and Packagekit locks the repositories for the time it installs/updates something or searches for updates. If Packagekit doesn't close itself after this, this is obviously a bug and should be reported. But I did not encounter this and could updates/install new software just fine via yast2. How often Packagekit searches for update is configurable and can be disabled -> no locks.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hmm, a Software Center... Well, good luck with that. It would be worthless to me, but new users would definitely appreciate one. (Also, "App Store" is a poor name, as nothing is sold there, and also copyright.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chris2kari View Post
                            Packagekit is rubbish.
                            It has Gnome disease - ie everything is COMPLETELY hidden from the end user & it is full of bugs.
                            Do a fresh install of OpenSUSE 12.2 & then try to add/remove some software & what do you get? Packagekit has locked it..
                            Actually things like these aren't usually PackageKitís fault. The biggest problem is the PackageKit-Zypper adapter. Itís simply buggy and for some reason wasn't even actively maintained for a bunch of openSUSE releases.
                            Good to finally see improvements.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by chris2kari View Post
                              Packagekit is rubbish.
                              It has Gnome disease - ie everything is COMPLETELY hidden from the end user & it is full of bugs.
                              Do a fresh install of OpenSUSE 12.2 & then try to add/remove some software & what do you get? Packagekit has locked it..
                              Look on the bug trackers & mailings lists. The dev's repsonses to complaints about this is "oh we know about that.. it happens for some hours or so.."
                              When pressed to fix the problem the response is "no, someone asked us to put that in so we are not taking it out"

                              The only way to gain control of your system is to :

                              1) open a terminal, kill packagekit,
                              2) disable it from restarting,
                              3) rebooting then
                              4) rooting it out with zypper rm packagekit apper.
                              5) Congratulate yourself on making OpenSUSE now usable.
                              The only time I have had Packagekit tie up the system is when it checks for updates. After it is done it is out of the way. Feel free to uninstall Apper if it causes problems on your system.

                              If you don't beleive me look at the huge number of threads on the forums, the bug trackers and the mailing lists!
                              Ok moderator go stick your head back in the Fedora kool-aide.
                              The problem isn't with packagekit, the problem is with Apper. Removing apper cures the issue. You do not have to uninstall Packagekit as there is nothing to call on it if you remove apper. If you have been with openSUSE long enough you should also remember that their various attempts at having a applet check updates and tie up the system extends well back for years and years and well before PackageKit was even implemented and as far back as 9.3 when they were using redcarpet.

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