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OpenSUSE 12.3 Being Prepped With Numerous Changes

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  • #16
    My computer is triple boot. Windows (for very rare occasions when I need it), then two linux installs (each has boot, root and var partitions).

    Normally I snapshot one linux over the top of the other before I do a system upgrade of one version to the next. Trying to upgrade 12.1 to 12.2 ended up with a broken system, wouldn't boot and start everything up, and dependencies got into such a state I couldn't upgrade or downgrade. So I wiped that attempt clean and installed from scratch.


    At the moment the first linux install is a fresh 12.2, and it tends to crash because of problems with the video driver - not only does it not suspend, it locks up solid. I can't control screen brightness either.

    The second linux install is a mature 12.1+tumbleweed with a self-built optimised kernel, and is rock solid, and suspends and resumes perfectly. I can control screen brightness too. I selectively allow package upgrades as I don't want it to break, I only upgrade non-core stuff!


    12.2 looks nicer, is further through the systemd transition, and has a lot of improvements, but I am disappointed in the suspend/resume problem, especially as 12.1 was problem free practically out of the box.


    This cycle of good release, OK release and poor release seems typical of SuSE - things are just settling down when some sub-system is ripped out and a new one put in which doesn't fully work till the next major release. PulseAudio, I'm remembering you! KDE3.5 to 4, remember that? Plasmoid desktop stuff? This is why I now dual-boot.


    At work the standard is fedora desktops and centos on the servers. I did a simple routine update on fedora and now X11 hangs. Fortunately that machine is dual boot, and the 2nd OS is osuse12.2 which is working OK. My boss probably thinks I am running Fedora with a green theme ;-)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by speculatrix View Post
      At the moment the first linux install is a fresh 12.2, and it tends to crash because of problems with the video driver - not only does it not suspend, it locks up solid. I can't control screen brightness either.
      Sounds like a problem with the kernel (if using OSS drivers) or the blob (if using closed drivers). Either way it's an upstream issue, not one with openSUSE. And in the first case you can write a bug report (if it wasn't solved already in OBS Kernel:HEAD).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
        Sounds like a problem with the kernel (if using OSS drivers) or the blob (if using closed drivers). Either way it's an upstream issue, not one with openSUSE. And in the first case you can write a bug report (if it wasn't solved already in OBS Kernel:HEAD).
        I lose the ability to control screen brightness whenever I install the proprietary NVidia drivers. Always had the issue.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by deanjo View Post
          This was again done to address a few issues. The init system is fine but does carry a lot of legacy payload. With most other distro's switching to Systemd this is actually a good thing as it becomes less distro dependent. ... Plus SystemD does have it's advantages.
          Right. Like I am currently upgrading from Suse 11.4 to 12.2 and now have to deal with systemd. This thing is not even able to correctly automount a nfs-mount out of fstab without cheating it. It tries to mount while the network isn't up and then I end up without the directories. I have to mount manually after logging in.
          I've seen systems presenting a login prompt without a login beeing possible unless you wait for 5 seconds until network authentification was working.
          To me systemd is dead on arrival. A major regression to be removed from the system.
          What's the use of a system that boots within 10 seconds but is only partially functional afterwards?

          Regards,
          Martin

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          • #20
            Originally posted by smartysmart34 View Post
            To me systemd is dead on arrival. A major regression to be removed from the system.
            Systemd is fine. You are the regression. Behind every bad craftmanship there is a neckbeard bitching because of "wrong or bad tools". Sorry but systemd is very good, well documentated and well maintained. Your scriptkiddie c/p skillz just didnt cut it. Please fix your shit instead of crapping all over phoronix because you lack talent.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
              You are the regression.
              Your scriptkiddie c/p skillz just didnt cut it.
              Please fix your shit instead of crapping all over phoronix because you lack talent.
              Oh look who's talking. Possibly one of the developers responsible for that mess.
              Funny enough most of the forums of the major distributions are full of people who have issues with systemd.
              Maybe there is one new development going on, that you just missed: People want to actually USE their system, not deal with annoying scripts and config files. If a boot manager is not able to bring up a system including nfs-fileshares "out of the box" then it's simply broken. Face it.

              To be honest: your communication skills just don't cut it. I'm out of this thread.
              btw: Is this the way phoronix wants people to comment here? I'll be back right after improving my abuse-skills.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by smartysmart34 View Post
                Right. Like I am currently upgrading from Suse 11.4 to 12.2 and now have to deal with systemd. This thing is not even able to correctly automount a nfs-mount out of fstab without cheating it. It tries to mount while the network isn't up and then I end up without the directories. I have to mount manually after logging in.
                I've seen systems presenting a login prompt without a login beeing possible unless you wait for 5 seconds until network authentification was working.
                To me systemd is dead on arrival. A major regression to be removed from the system.
                What's the use of a system that boots within 10 seconds but is only partially functional afterwards?

                Regards,
                Martin
                The issue here is that your upgrade did not go well. 12.2 does not have an issue with mounting NFS on a clean install. In fact I was the original bug poster on your very issue on Novells bug tracker. The other option is that you still can just install the sysvinit-init package if you want to revert to sysvinit. It is as simple as that (or a clean install would also work).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  The issue here is that your upgrade did not go well. 12.2 does not have an issue with mounting NFS on a clean install. In fact I was the original bug poster on your very issue on Novells bug tracker. The other option is that you still can just install the sysvinit-init package if you want to revert to sysvinit. It is as simple as that (or a clean install would also work).
                  Hm. So there is no way to fix systemd to actually mount the shares without a reinstall? That's sad.

                  I see 2 packages: sysvinit and sysvinit-init. Are you saying I only need the second of these?
                  Will it activate all the init-scripts that were available in my old installation "Pre-Upgrade"?

                  Can I afterwards uninstall systemd? Or do I still need it?
                  And will everything that is now started by systemd then be started by sysvinit?

                  Kind regards,
                  Martin

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by smartysmart34 View Post
                    I see 2 packages: sysvinit and sysvinit-init. Are you saying I only need the second of these?
                    Will it activate all the init-scripts that were available in my old installation "Pre-Upgrade"?

                    Can I afterwards uninstall systemd? Or do I still need it?
                    And will everything that is now started by systemd then be started by sysvinit?
                    Thats nice. Finally you trade in some ego for willingness to actally learn stuff. Great progress. Eventaully you will learn systemd is perfectly able to handle your old shit. And in months time you will love it and flame ignorants yourself.

                    Godspeed!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      It may be a disappointment for you but I never flame people for not agreeing to my opinion.
                      I was curious and wanted to see whether you ever provided actual help to anybody in this forum but it seems your main mission is to offend people with rude posts. It's a shame your status here is "Phoronix Member".

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by smartysmart34 View Post
                        Hm. So there is no way to fix systemd to actually mount the shares without a reinstall? That's sad.

                        I see 2 packages: sysvinit and sysvinit-init. Are you saying I only need the second of these?
                        Will it activate all the init-scripts that were available in my old installation "Pre-Upgrade"?

                        Can I afterwards uninstall systemd? Or do I still need it?
                        And will everything that is now started by systemd then be started by sysvinit?

                        Kind regards,
                        Martin
                        Maybe old init scripts are the source of the problem. The mounting should not be done via init scripts (they still get executed by systemd if present!), but by entries in fstab.
                        My suggestions is to first check if old init scripts are the problem, before completely removing systemd. It's really the better way to boot.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by smartysmart34 View Post
                          Hm. So there is no way to fix systemd to actually mount the shares without a reinstall? That's sad.

                          I see 2 packages: sysvinit and sysvinit-init. Are you saying I only need the second of these?
                          Will it activate all the init-scripts that were available in my old installation "Pre-Upgrade"?

                          Can I afterwards uninstall systemd? Or do I still need it?
                          And will everything that is now started by systemd then be started by sysvinit?

                          Kind regards,
                          Martin
                          IIRC selecting sysvinit-init will autoselect sysvinit as well. Also, I'm not sure if you are using Grub 1 or 2 but if you are still using Grub 1 you should have a choice of the init system that you want to use to boot up (IIRC I think it is the F5 key). That way you don't have to play around with installing and uninstalling packages to test.

                          I don't think it will allow you to uninstall systemd as it is a listed package in the base pattern. I had the same problems as you did with an upgrade from 11.4 to 12.1. After a few months of fighting it (and the developers unable to replicate it) I decided to do just a clean install and it fixed itself (kept the home paritions intact). Now I can easily have my NFS servers (v3 and 4) available without the boot process trying to mount before the network is up.

                          Out of curiosity, if you go into YaST partitioner does it show double entries in the list of nfs mounts?

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                          • #28
                            I never used init-scripts for the nfs-mounts but only configured them via fstab.
                            So there shouldn't be an issue with initscripts.
                            I'm still on Grub v1.
                            No, the partitioner in YAST only shows the nfs-mounts once.

                            There is a thread in the opensuse forums that indicates that nfs mounts with systemd are not working by default because - according to them - systemd tries to mount fstab entries (including nfs) before network is available...

                            http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...king-boot.html

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by smartysmart34 View Post
                              I never used init-scripts for the nfs-mounts but only configured them via fstab.
                              So there shouldn't be an issue with initscripts.
                              I'm still on Grub v1.
                              No, the partitioner in YAST only shows the nfs-mounts once.

                              There is a thread in the opensuse forums that indicates that nfs mounts with systemd are not working by default because - according to them - systemd tries to mount fstab entries (including nfs) before network is available...

                              http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...king-boot.html
                              Next question..... NFS3 or NFS4? If NFS v3 then try adding _netdev to your fstab mount parameters. Example:

                              192.168.1.201:/local/2000-4 /local/2000-4 nfs _netdev,defaults 0 0

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                                Next question..... NFS3 or NFS4? If NFS v3 then try adding _netdev to your fstab mount parameters. Example:
                                Hmmmm. Good question.
                                Yast says: nfs-kernel-server and gives a version 1.2.3-11.16.1
                                The description of the package nfsidmap says: NFSv4 ID Mapping Library.

                                So I assume it's NFS4?

                                According to your proposal tha _netdev option does not apply for v4?

                                Regards,
                                Martin

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