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Fedora 18 Isn't Looking Too Good, Anaconda Problems

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  • #16
    maybe they should switch to a rolling release thing... but if one Linux should be stopped, its Suse and maybe mandrake... I see no real benefit in having them... I mean Ubuntu was more or less needed because debian was too conservative and had to long release times, for most desktop users.

    And staying always unstable is no real option because even today they have not the current gnome-shell release in it as example, not even the half like ubuntu does it ^^.

    And it is not always unstable it gets kind of freezed before releases come. So whatever... but whats the reason behind suse? German isdn stuff is gone... each distribution is perfektly usable by germans... so wtf why didnt it die? Yes there are maybe some guys that are not that bad that work there. but why not help the fedora guys.

    But it seems its a good business modell that works and they make money out of it, if that happens anything will continue, even if your company would plan to destroy the world, if making such a plan would generate income for a company they would do it ^^ (but to be fair novell dont plan to kill the planet).

    But why not make it like ubuntu did it, have one main distro like fedora and then have some other mints call it opensuse or mandrake or whatever... you could also call it instead of suse kde-fedora oder kedora and so on ^^ but its business desition have nothing to do with technical efficency or rationalaties... there is money reinvent the wheel a thousend times jippy.

    but you dont need to do even a ubuntuish thing... look at linux mint... also builds on top of ubuntu, why not make a linux mint like opensuse... and instead of build all stuff test it write all yourself... help a bit upstream and manage some packages. Or make a joint-venture or something like that ^^
    Last edited by blackiwid; 10-31-2012, 08:10 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by squirrl View Post
      Canonical has 50 people working on Ubuntu
      RedHat has 3 working on Fedora.

      And for everyone else there is Debian?

      Bad credit card analogy.
      I...what? Who are you replying to? Where are you getting your numbers from? What point are you trying to make?

      There's more than 3 RH staff working on Fedora _just on my team_ (the RH Fedora QA team), never mind project-wide. I'm sure Canonical has far more than 50 people working on Ubuntu too.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
        maybe they should switch to a rolling release thing... but if one Linux should be stopped, its Suse and maybe mandrake... I see no real benefit in having them... I mean Ubuntu was more or less needed because debian was too conservative and had to long release times, for most desktop users.
        That's really silly. Mandriva and it's family arguably don't do that much but SUSE is important. It not only provides real competition in the Enterprise market segment but it's also a massive contributor to the Linux ecosystem. Not as big as Red Hat sure, however they still tend to be in the top 10 for various projects including the kernel, and as well they have their own very important projects such as the Open Build Service, and Redhat is now using SUSE's LibSolv as part of DNF. openSUSE itself is a really powerful and flexible distribution when it comes to packaging because of zypper and the OBS and YaST is of course nice too.

        Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
        And it is not always unstable it gets kind of freezed before releases come. So whatever... but whats the reason behind suse? German isdn stuff is gone... each distribution is perfektly usable by germans... so wtf why didnt it die? Yes there are maybe some guys that are not that bad that work there. but why not help the fedora guys.
        Why didn't it die? Because SUSE is successful, maybe not as successful as Red Hat but still nothing to laugh at. Besides what's it matter if the German component is there or not? It's an international distribution, and has a different philosophy than Fedora. Besides you can't control developers.

        Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
        But why not make it like ubuntu did it, have one main distro like fedora and then have some other mints call it opensuse or mandrake or whatever... you could also call it instead of suse kde-fedora oder kedora and so on ^^ but its business desition have nothing to do with technical efficency or rationalaties... there is money reinvent the wheel a thousend times jippy.
        Except that openSUSE is a distant slackware relative, and has nothing at all to do with the Red Hat family. On top of which are you really sure you want a duopoly between Debian and Red Hat? And Ubuntu is the perfect example of the wheel being reinvented 1000 times over in it's "derivatives" and how Cannonical itself approaches things.

        Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
        but you dont need to do even a ubuntuish thing... look at linux mint... also builds on top of ubuntu, why not make a linux mint like opensuse... and instead of build all stuff test it write all yourself... help a bit upstream and manage some packages. Or make a joint-venture or something like that ^^
        because Family level competition and trying different methods of solving things is a good thing. See above

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        • #19
          Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
          Na na na na na naaaa Fedora is going to shit. Ubuntu is the king! Fedora is clearly inferior to Ubuntu and less usable. Now they can't even ship.
          Not sure if trolling... but anyway, not sure where you're getting this idea that 'Fedora is going to shit' considering anaconda is just the python based graphical installer tool. Also, Fedora less usable? Hardly. How's your OpenGL performance under Unity these days?

          Originally posted by squirrl View Post
          Canonical has 50 people working on Ubuntu
          RedHat has 3 working on Fedora.
          I'd love to know where people get these wildly misinformed ideas about Fedora and Red Hat. In terms of company contributions, Red Hat have contributed more to the Linux eco-system than any other company and on the planet and have made a fortune doing so.

          Infact, lets look at a report showing direct Kernel contributions between companies for kernels from 2.6.32 until 3.2 for example.. who leads the pack? Red Hat.
          http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-...lopment-report

          Looking directly at the PDF, Canonical isn't even listed!
          http://go.linuxfoundation.org/who-writes-linux-2012

          Comment


          • #20
            Sitting pretty with Fedora 16 and I am waiting for new hardware to arrive anyway before I can upgrade. So just release when it is done. I do not see what all the fuss is over this to be honest - and Anaconda does need an update. So, give it some time.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by squirrl View Post
              Canonical has 50 people working on Ubuntu
              RedHat has 3 working on Fedora.

              And for everyone else there is Debian?

              Bad credit card analogy.
              Change Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian to "open-source communities", and count again.

              Canonical guys trend to develop Ubuntu-specific software (Unity is the most outstanding one), while Red Hat works for the whole ecosystem.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                maybe they should switch to a rolling release thing... but if one Linux should be stopped, its Suse and maybe mandrake... I see no real benefit in having them... I mean Ubuntu was more or less needed because debian was too conservative and had to long release times, for most desktop users.

                And staying always unstable is no real option because even today they have not the current gnome-shell release in it as example, not even the half like ubuntu does it ^^.

                And it is not always unstable it gets kind of freezed before releases come. So whatever... but whats the reason behind suse? German isdn stuff is gone... each distribution is perfektly usable by germans... so wtf why didnt it die? Yes there are maybe some guys that are not that bad that work there. but why not help the fedora guys.

                But it seems its a good business modell that works and they make money out of it, if that happens anything will continue, even if your company would plan to destroy the world, if making such a plan would generate income for a company they would do it ^^ (but to be fair novell dont plan to kill the planet).

                But why not make it like ubuntu did it, have one main distro like fedora and then have some other mints call it opensuse or mandrake or whatever... you could also call it instead of suse kde-fedora oder kedora and so on ^^ but its business desition have nothing to do with technical efficency or rationalaties... there is money reinvent the wheel a thousend times jippy.

                but you dont need to do even a ubuntuish thing... look at linux mint... also builds on top of ubuntu, why not make a linux mint like opensuse... and instead of build all stuff test it write all yourself... help a bit upstream and manage some packages. Or make a joint-venture or something like that ^^
                suse does a whole lot more for the linux comunity in general then most of the distro's you mentioned, next to that with osb you can build anything you want and package for all the distro's you mentioned, its a solid good distro that fits nicely between fedora and ubuntu

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                  They need to further though, using ubuntu as an example, their LTS releases are too slow with he hardware enablement updates, and you often get stuck with old software, having to use a bunch of ppa's to keep things up to date.

                  For example I have ivybridge graphics, so ubuntu 12.04 isn't really an option with its old kernel/drivers. At least fedora is usually decent about updating those.
                  You might want to install the Linux backport packages.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Xilanaz View Post
                    suse does a whole lot more for the linux comunity in general then most of the distro's you mentioned, next to that with osb you can build anything you want and package for all the distro's you mentioned, its a solid good distro that fits nicely between fedora and ubuntu
                    Indeed, there is no reason for this hate on SUSE.

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    Performance in Unity is absolute shit but that's why I use xfce. I fucking hate Unity and gnome shell new age desktop bullshit. And kde is just plainuglyevilfuckingstupid ...like.
                    I see... you just like pissing everyone off.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                      I see... you just like pissing everyone off.
                      He's been a pretty obvious troll for quite some weeks, it always surprises me people don't recognize his shit posts from other threads.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Xilanaz View Post
                        suse does a whole lot more for the linux comunity in general then most of the distro's you mentioned, next to that with osb you can build anything you want and package for all the distro's you mentioned, its a solid good distro that fits nicely between fedora and ubuntu
                        I did not rant against suse developers, I dont just see the reason behind this fedora clone... I dont know there history but they are rpm based thats the reason I think its similar to fedora, they have other release-timings more conservative etc ok but it would be better to not reinvent the wheel so much times... I mean if you have a good goal it makes sense maybe... but both teams fedora and suse seems to have problems managing all stuff and having problems with releasework. there was a artikel where suse developers whined about if 2 guys go at the same time in holliday all falls apart or something like that.

                        So yes some of you argued that its a question about their enterprise distros... so redhat linux vs fedora and suse enterprise vs opensuse. that is just my point, they do that just because of making money its technicaly stupid to do. there is a reason why there are so many ubuntu-clones it costs much effort to make out of nothing or even out of debian a destkop-ready distribution its just more work, that taking ubuntu and make your diffs to that.

                        So they make themself more work, and dont work together because they want to sell it, it makes technicaly no sense. And to the suse is not redhatish, as far as I know, lsb is basicly we define how redhat does stuff as standart, mostly... and maybe I am wrong here? Suse have directory structure and rpm and most other stuff like lsb says it. So I dont really get it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Anaconda is in the critical path

                          New hardware systems are uefi based. Anaconda was first coded with one solution, and then, following SUSE, whose solution was superior, they dropped that solution for one that is as compliant.
                          Anaconda will be used by other distributions such as CENTOS, SCIENTIFIC LINUX, RED Hat Linux and other Linuxes that are forks of Fedora.

                          Solving the problem for Fedora is solving it for others. It has to work on many platforms, uefi and non uefi, on the mac and on pentium 3 systems as well as the atom.

                          That is quite a feat. The UBUNTU solution as far as I know, is a temporary one, that UBUNTU started with a year ago. The solution that parallels Fedora and SUSE will probably be presented in a later UBUNTU version.

                          I am using Fedora 18 based an the Alpha release. Because it was alpha, some stuff needs tweaking, but all the applications I have downloaded and used, work flawlessly.

                          So yes, we understand that Anaconda is late, and that the programer(s) are under pressure, but we must also back off from criticism. The new anaconda looks very much better than the legacy version from which we are moving away. One cannot divide ones attention to multiple problems when the others require a solid reliable installer program.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I do hope some things have improved from this early look last August though in terms of design:
                            http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/08/21...condas-new-ui/

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lsatenstein View Post
                              New hardware systems are uefi based. Anaconda was first coded with one solution, and then, following SUSE, whose solution was superior, they dropped that solution for one that is as compliant.
                              This is confused, in several ways.

                              For a start, you're confusing UEFI and Secure Boot. UEFI is a new firmware standard for PCs, replacing the old BIOS standard. It has been around for several years, and Fedora has supported it for several releases, since Fedora 12 at least.

                              You seem to be talking about Secure Boot, which is a single feature of recent versions of the UEFI specification. It is not mandatory under the UEFI spec, though it is required by Microsoft's Windows 8 certification program. Many systems have already shipped with UEFI firmwares in the last few years, with no Secure Boot. I'm typing this on one.

                              As far as Secure Boot goes, most of the necessary support is not in anaconda, it is in the bootloader and kernel layers. anaconda does not have to do anything special to support Secure Boot, really, beyond maybe installing an extra package.

                              And in terms of actually supporting Secure Boot - it is more correct to say that many parties, including RH and SUSE, have been working in collaboration to support SB. RH's Matthew Garrett came up with the broad design that Fedora, SUSE and Ubuntu will all use. SUSE suggested a neat revision to the design which Matt liked, and incorporated into his work; it's not correct to say that we started out with one codebase and then completely ditched it for a different one which SUSE designed, this is a misrepresentation. Since SUSE's plan was pretty much the same as Matt's plan plus the neat improvement, and Matt added their suggested improvement, they just decided to use the code Matt was working on. In the end it works out as a collaborative effort.

                              Fedora and SUSE will both use virtually the same code for SB support. Ubuntu will use a slightly older version of the same code initially, configured in a slightly different way. As Matthew wrote at http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/18945.html:

                              "As far as I know, Suse and Fedora will be shipping the same code. Ubuntu is shipping an older version of Shim but should pick up the local key management code in the next release. The only significant difference is that Ubuntu doesn't require that kernel modules be signed."

                              I do recommend reading through Matt's blog archive on the topic. It's dense stuff, but you'll wind up better informed

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                                I do hope some things have improved from this early look last August though in terms of design:
                                http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/08/21...condas-new-ui/
                                No, we've just been sitting around and twiddling our thumbs for three months.

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