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openSUSE Has A Problem, Is Seeking New Direction

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  • openSUSE Has A Problem, Is Seeking New Direction

    Phoronix: openSUSE Has A Problem, Is Seeking New Direction

    Stephan Kulow, the release manager for openSUSE, has publicly acknowledged this morning that this community distribution to SUSE has found itself in a problem and they're now looking to the community to seek out a fundamentally new direction for this Linux distribution...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTExOTU

  • #2
    First he mentions limited manpower.
    Then he mentions they've grown and their current way of working don't scale anymore.

    Comment


    • #3
      Good for them. I'm glad someone is seeing the rolling-release light. Canonical, take note.

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      • #4
        I think moving to rolling-release model is the best solution to all problems.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DanL View Post
          Good for them. I'm glad someone is seeing the rolling-release light. Canonical, take note.
          Indeed.

          Originally posted by ArtKun View Post
          I think moving to rolling-release model is the best solution to all problems.
          Yes!

          Waiting 6+ months for a new release to get software updated sucks.
          This is the days of lightspeed Internet where you need to keep on innovating and developing or you become irrelevant.
          6 months in the computer industry is a very long time. Too long time.

          I want my software updates now.
          I want GIMP 2.8 now, not in 6 months when Ubuntu 12.10 is out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Rolling releases will be great to end users, but a complete pain in the ass for the developers. When the ABI or API for a shared library like libPNG changes, EVERYTHING that directly depends on it has to get updated as well. If the developers don't catch a broken package due to changes in the shared library, they're going to have tons of angry users breathing down their neck. It's much easier for developers to push back shared library changes to the next release so they have more time for testing.

            Distributions like Gentoo or Arch don't have to worry about this because it's a community, not a company that has to (absolutely) worry about keeping everything stable. Further more, Gentoo has tools like revdep-rebuild and python-updater that can detect broken packages and Python libraries and will do its best to automagically fix them for you, taking the work off the developers. I don't know if other communities or companies use tools like this, it'd be nice to know how they handle broken packages.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Vax456 View Post
              Distributions like Gentoo or Arch don't have to worry about this because it's a community, not a company that has to (absolutely) worry about keeping everything stable.
              openSUSE is a distribution run by community for the community. SUSE Linux Enterprise is completely different story.

              Comment


              • #8
                Rolling-release, rolling-release, rolling-release ! It saves tons of kittens !

                Really - I'm too fed up with installing OS's. I run some Gentoo boxes for years now and I never had to wipe anything or do scary release updates - and always get fresh and useless new features. Of course there are sometimes minor incompatibilities with updates, but those small ones are usually easier to solve than having more or major ones on larger upgrades.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                  Waiting 6+ months for a new release to get software updated sucks.
                  This is the days of lightspeed Internet where you need to keep on innovating and developing or you become irrelevant.
                  6 months in the computer industry is a very long time. Too long time.

                  I want my software updates now.
                  I want GIMP 2.8 now, not in 6 months when Ubuntu 12.10 is out.
                  6 month release-cycles basically suck, and it's one of the (many) reasons, i use a rolling-release.

                  Out of curiosity, though - if you want gimp-2.8, isn't there a PPA in Ubuntu for that? and even if there wasn't, you do know you could build Gimp yourself, right?

                  I build Gimp from the GIT branch, every few weeks. So most of the features in 2.8 (including 'single-window-mode') i've been using for quite some time now. I suspect though, someone probably is packaging 2.8 in a PPA (along with a newer version of BABL and GEGL, as gimp would require them).

                  cheerz

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                  • #10
                    But OpenSUSE already has a rolling release version - it's called Tumbleweed and works more or less ok, there's only a small catch... Rolling means new kernel and xorg versions all the time. Which means you won't necessarily be compatible properietary driver versions, especially GPU drivers, as amd and nvidia don't want to keep up with the kernel. So, yeah... ;-)

                    Either way I'm really confident in the dev team, seeing as they manage all this time to keep the whole OpenSUSE distro up to date and stable at the same time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As an openSUSE user, I'd rather see them drop release schedules, but neither go into full rolling-release mode nor release once a year. Rather, adopt the new AMD driver release model - release when it makes sense. If there are major things to include in the release, then start working on it, and once it's stable enough, release it, without having any deadlines.

                      I don't think that going rolling-release is a good idea, in part due to what Vax456 said, in part due to the fact that there *already* is Tumbleweed, and in part that releases are a good motivation for users to upgrade. With rolling releases, you get things like kernel upgrades, KDE upgrades etc., but I don't believe too many people install all the upgrades on a regular basis. Some of the programs could stay at an old version for years without anyone caring to update to the latest one. Plus, reinstalling is a great way to clean the installation. There are always packages that you installed to test something or other, and then forgot about their existence, and yet they take up disk space. And what if you want to switch from EXT4 to Btrfs, but don't know when it would be a good time to do so? A new release is a natural point for major upgrades like that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vax456 View Post
                        Rolling releases will be great to end users, but a complete pain in the ass for the developers. When the ABI or API for a shared library like libPNG changes, EVERYTHING that directly depends on it has to get updated as well. If the developers don't catch a broken package due to changes in the shared library, they're going to have tons of angry users breathing down their neck. It's much easier for developers to push back shared library changes to the next release so they have more time for testing.
                        Well, they could do a semi-rolling release where application software gets updated, but libraries and system components does not.


                        Originally posted by ninez View Post
                        Out of curiosity, though - if you want gimp-2.8, isn't there a PPA in Ubuntu for that? and even if there wasn't, you do know you could build Gimp yourself, right?
                        Building yourself sucks; you must download tons of development libraries, read instructions, take long time, install and then you cant uninstall and handle it and it seem difficult and dangerous.
                        Yeah, I could use PPA. But then I have to use a third-party non-trusted PPA add it myself and stuff. Takes effort, isn't safe and can break stuff.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                          but I don't believe too many people install all the upgrades on a regular basis.
                          That's why you make them automatic. As long as user has frequent net connection (and anyone using rolling-release should), then updates get installed.

                          Rolling means new kernel and xorg versions all the time. Which means you won't necessarily be compatible properietary driver versions, especially GPU drivers, as amd and nvidia don't want to keep up with the kernel.
                          That's why Debian sid users put relevant X packages on hold when using proprietary blobs. Nvidia does a pretty good job at keeping up with X and kernel (at least with current driver branch), though they could be a bit quicker keeping their legacy branches updated.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DanL View Post
                            That's why you make them automatic. As long as user has frequent net connection (and anyone using rolling-release should), then updates get installed.
                            And proceed to break your system. Pretty much every time I upgrade FFmpeg, it breaks something while fixing something else. And pretty much every time I upgrade the kernel, all the binary blobs become broken. So automatic updates are also not ideal... Plus what I said about releases being good points for renewal and change.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cyber Killer View Post
                              But OpenSUSE already has a rolling release version - it's called Tumbleweed and works more or less ok, there's only a small catch... Rolling means new kernel and xorg versions all the time. Which means you won't necessarily be compatible properietary driver versions, especially GPU drivers, as amd and nvidia don't want to keep up with the kernel. So, yeah... ;-)

                              Either way I'm really confident in the dev team, seeing as they manage all this time to keep the whole OpenSUSE distro up to date and stable at the same time.
                              Tumbleweed is no rolling release its like an extra repo with updated packages.

                              Comment

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