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Ubuntu Developers Discuss Using Mono AOT

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  • #31
    Um, you do, especially with big objects. See the before example of leaking a meg per second, until things hit about two gig used and the GC kindly woke up.

    That RAM use is bad, because it took RAM from actually useful things such as the file cache.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by curaga View Post
      Um, you do, especially with big objects.
      I agree with you that you always have to think about memory usage and performance at some point. But leaking memory is not a problem of C# as a language, but a problem of the specific implementation of the runtime. Also if you don't know what you do you can always fu** up the program. That's why you still need to know how to write good algorithms and you still need to know what's behind a keyword or builtin command in language to write good programs. Nobody will ever claim he created a programming language where anybody can write large good performing programs in.

      You should also keep in mind that programming languages are designed by humans. No human is perfect, so no programming language is perfect. But they always try to make it better.

      Additionally I would like to say that I believe there's no way to make you like C#, but there are people out there that like the language. I don't see a reason to force you to like C# and I don't see a reason to take away a programming language from people who like it, just because there's already one which can create the same programs (this would mean we should go back to writing assembler, bcause you obviously can do everything there, no need to do C or C++ ;-))

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      • #33
        The .net guys have a big problem with java.They attack java because C# is the main competitor of java.


        C# is better than java ,BUT java have a lot of extensions and libraries which almost solves the problem of your weakness.

        Java have much more projects (extensions like AspectJ,JML,extensions to language).Very powerful IDEs. (Eclipse,Netbeans,Bluej). Powerful Frameworks and much more.



        Java have the reference implementation using Open Source License (OpenJDK ).NET does not.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by lapis View Post
          The .net guys have a big problem with java.They attack java because C# is the main competitor of java.


          C# is better than java ,BUT java have a lot of extensions and libraries which almost solves the problem of your weakness.

          Java have much more projects (extensions like AspectJ,JML,extensions to language).Very powerful IDEs. (Eclipse,Netbeans,Bluej). Powerful Frameworks and much more.



          Java have the reference implementation using Open Source License (OpenJDK ).NET does not.
          I can honestly say I attack java only because I've actually used it. I still have nightmares about coding a swing GUI. The language is a total disaster in comparison to c#.

          However, you are correct with a lot of your points - the Java IDEs are the best of any language, and it's not close. There are a lot of extensions and APIs it has that are only slowly ported to other languages, if at all.

          I'd never claim that Java is impossible to use, or even a bad solution in many cases - just that from a technical perspective the language is terrible to program in unless you feel you need to for some other reason.

          Personally, I'd choose c# for rapid application development, and c++ if i was creating a desktop app that would be widely distributed. For system tools, i'd decide between c and c++ based on how large i figured the project would become.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by lapis View Post
            Java have the reference implementation using Open Source License (OpenJDK ).NET does not.
            A "reference implementation" cannot be GPL, since you can't reference it without your own code becoming GPL. Not without a legal shitstorm. See Googls vs Oracle.

            It's an almost complete, functional, and fast implementation, but I'd never suggest it's reference material.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by directhex View Post
              A "reference implementation" cannot be GPL, since you can't reference it without your own code becoming GPL. Not without a legal shitstorm. See Googls vs Oracle.

              It's an almost complete, functional, and fast implementation, but I'd never suggest it's reference material.


              What I was trying to say is OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is GPL. .NET is not free and opensource.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                I can honestly say I attack java only because I've actually used it. I still have nightmares about coding a swing GUI. The language is a total disaster in comparison to c#.

                However, you are correct with a lot of your points - the Java IDEs are the best of any language, and it's not close. There are a lot of extensions and APIs it has that are only slowly ported to other languages, if at all.

                I'd never claim that Java is impossible to use, or even a bad solution in many cases - just that from a technical perspective the language is terrible to program in unless you feel you need to for some other reason.

                Personally, I'd choose c# for rapid application development, and c++ if i was creating a desktop app that would be widely distributed. For system tools, i'd decide between c and c++ based on how large i figured the project would become.

                It's too easy to copy a language and after criticize the same language you copied . The .NET guys have a mental problem and hate of java ,because Microsoft does not like java (although c# is a updated version of java).



                All the faults about java are easily fixed using good IDEs ,extensions and reference manuals. And for people does not like java , there a lot of other languages running on a JVM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by lapis View Post
                  It's too easy to copy a language and after criticize the same language you copied . The .NET guys have a mental problem and hate of java ,because Microsoft does not like java (although c# is a updated version of java).
                  Microsoft loves Java, that's why they wanted to make it the new default programming language, to replace VB6. They were sued for their efforts. C# is the end result - i.e. "if we need to make our *own* Java, let's remove the shit bits"

                  All the faults about java are easily fixed using good IDEs ,extensions and reference manuals.
                  Sounds like you've never written or used Java, since its problems are significantly more fundamental than can be fixed by any of these.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by directhex View Post
                    Microsoft loves Java, that's why they wanted to make it the new default programming language, to replace VB6. They were sued for their efforts. C# is the end result - i.e. "if we need to make our *own* Java, let's remove the shit bits"



                    Sounds like you've never written or used Java, since its problems are significantly more fundamental than can be fixed by any of these.

                    Microsoft loves .NET .They used java but they do not like java . They were sued when "cloned" java and this was a correct action .


                    And please don talk what you don t know .Nobody is so paranoid about software development to underestimate everything about java and its extensions. Software development is lot more than "evangelize" everyone about how c# is superior to java.(A complete FUD)

                    I recommend everyone using linux to use Python using PyPY. I will not recommend anyone to overbloat a linux distribution using another VM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by lapis View Post
                      I recommend everyone using linux to use Python using PyPY. I will not recommend anyone to overbloat a linux distribution using another VM.
                      The benchmarks show Mono as up to 30 times faster, and down to a quarter of the RAM, of the equivalent in Python.

                      Why is Mono bloat, and Python desirable?

                      In the spirit of fairness, Java shows up as faster than Mono in the benchmarks, but using 5x more RAM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by directhex View Post
                        The benchmarks show Mono as up to 30 times faster, and down to a quarter of the RAM, of the equivalent in Python.

                        Why is Mono bloat, and Python desirable?

                        In the spirit of fairness, Java shows up as faster than Mono in the benchmarks, but using 5x more RAM.

                        Jo shields , I know about "speed of mono" to be faster than python . But python is default script language of all linux systems .It's better to use the vm we already have installed on system than use another vm .

                        And pypy can be a good replacement to cpython on some cases.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by lapis View Post
                          It's better to use the vm we already have installed on system than use another vm.
                          So distributions should stick to "most used" software and not offer alternatives? I see a problem with that philosophy. ;-)

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by lapis View Post
                            But python is default script language of all linux systems
                            That's Perl. Or even shell scripting. Python is a modern interloper.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by droste View Post
                              So distributions should stick to "most used" software and not offer alternatives? I see a problem with that philosophy. ;-)
                              Perl loses this position .Now a lot of distributions use python for apps.Fedora for example and ubuntu.



                              Don be stupid mono guy. Open any package manager and you will see mono . But we can never include another VM in default installation because of use of computer resources. People need to use things are standard like python or any frontend to gcc compiler (like Go language or D language)

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lapis View Post
                                Don be stupid mono guy
                                I don't even have mono installed on my machine... it was totally necessary to call me names. I'm out.

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