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  • #16
    and reiser4 show them that a fs using barriers can be fast. R4 went so far going into sync mode when barriers are not available.

    Of course r4 was blocked. Breaking and blocking had a long tradition. Breaking reiserfs had such a long tradition (demonstrating that 'get your code into the kernel and it will be fixed by us when we break it through changes elsewhere' was nothing but a lie). Reiser4 was blocked because of 'layer violations' - worse violations are ok with btrfs.

    The fact stands: fedora/redhat people don't care about your data. Only about looking good when stupid people run stupid benchmarks. Just like ext3.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by energyman View Post
      it is not only the problem of 'inconsist' state but also that there might be a HUGE window of a minute and more of 'you told the system to save the data and nothing happend' or 'you told the system to rename the file and it is still in progress'.

      Lots of people have lost lots of data because of idiotic defaults that are only set that way to look good in benchmarks conducted by people who
      a) don't have a clue or
      b) don't touch defaults or
      c) don't care or
      d) all of the above
      Tell me the good mount settings for EXT4 and I'll use them.

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      • #18
        luckily ext4 does use barriers by default - and the fs can't do much if the layer above does not honor them. Well, reiser4 does something about it, but ext4 can't. So the defaults are ok, as long as you don't use barrier-destroying-lvm-setups.

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        • #19
          LVM supports barriers too, since 2.6.33. Why they weren't enabled in the Fedora install I have no idea.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by chithanh View Post
            LVM supports barriers too, since 2.6.33. Why they weren't enabled in the Fedora install I have no idea.
            Again, I don't think that fedora DISABLES them, the link I gave says the exact opposite.

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            • #21
              I wonder why the article then claims that
              Fedora doesn't use write barriers with LVM
              A check of dmesg should decide the matter.

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              • #22
                What a typical phoronix thread. An unsubstaniated comment about a distribution accepted as fact to fuel nerdrage

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by chithanh View Post
                  I wonder why the article then claims thatA check of dmesg should decide the matter.
                  I don't care what the article said, I'm telling you what the fedora site said. I trust the guys who wrote this stuff more than Michael, in this case, especially since I haven't been able to find any evidence that fedora disables barriers at any level.
                  For the record, this F15 laptop says
                  Code:
                  EXT4-fs (dm-1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode

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                  • #24
                    Does anyone has any type of official link stating that Fedora 15 indeed doesn't support write barriers on ext4 over LVM?
                    (I have no problems remounting ext4 with mount / -o remount,barrier; by default ext4 is mounted in ordered mode)

                    - Gilboa
                    Last edited by gilboa; 07-04-2011, 03:19 AM.
                    DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
                    SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
                    BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
                    LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by liam View Post
                      I don't care what the article said, I'm telling you what the fedora site said. I trust the guys who wrote this stuff more than Michael, in this case, especially since I haven't been able to find any evidence that fedora disables barriers at any level.
                      For the record, this F15 laptop says
                      Code:
                      EXT4-fs (dm-1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode
                      you are looking at the wrong stuff. Even if ext4 tries to use barriers if lvm does not support them you are SOL.

                      Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                      Does anyone has any type of official link stating that Fedora 15 indeed doesn't support write barriers on ext4 over LVM?
                      (I have no problems remounting ext4 with mount / -o remount,barrier; by default ext4 is mounted in ordered mode)

                      - Gilboa
                      which will do nothing, if lvm does not support barriers.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by energyman View Post
                        you are looking at the wrong stuff. Even if ext4 tries to use barriers if lvm does not support them you are SOL.



                        which will do nothing, if lvm does not support barriers.
                        Unless I'm mistaken that WAS the lvm message (EXT4-fs) since lvm is the one who would be responsible for the device management (hence dm).
                        If you can find some documentation that shows otherwise and where I should look I would appreciate it.

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                        • #27
                          >EXT4-fs (dm-1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode

                          is the mount message from ext4. Filesystem, underlying device, mount options.

                          Nothing from lvm.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by energyman View Post
                            >EXT4-fs (dm-1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode

                            is the mount message from ext4. Filesystem, underlying device, mount options.

                            Nothing from lvm.
                            That's my point: the message should be from LVM since it is doing the management of said device.
                            Per this message, https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9554#c0, syslog should report if barrier's are enabled but not supported by lvm.
                            I don't see the message, q.e.d., error not ocuring.
                            Do you have any link to documentation, or command I can run, that would say otherwise?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Another weird LVM speedup

                              I stumbled upon another weird case where someone saw LVM be faster than directly using partitions. Turned out the LVM overhead (or maybe just the tester's whims) made a 1TB disk become slightly less than 1TB and apparently that allowed XFS (without inode64 mount option) keep inodes closer to their data. Life can be full of surprises.

                              Michael's tests were with ext4, though. And it's more of a size thing than an LVM thing, but if using LVM changes your sizing habits, then some performance differences could seem LVM-related...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Kari18
                                not using barriers = I don't care about data = fedora is unfit for every even slightly serious setup.
                                I don't think fedora has ever meant to have been for serious setups. It's more a distribution to try things out, before putting into RHEL.

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