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  • #16
    Originally posted by kraftman View Post
    Simply, usability studies. I took a look at gnome.org about gnome shell usability and I didn't find anything than: we did the change, because it will improve usability and end user experience etc. This is bullshit and there are no real explanation why they did what they did. I consider Unity is great right now and will be much better in the future. I'd love to see Gnome throwing shell away in the name of Unity. Fedora (so systemd, btrfs, spice and other features)+Unity+the rest of Gnome3 will be a great distribution (much better than Ubuntu imho). If there's still hope Gnome3 will become Linux only and someone fill fix the damn shell it will be also great. There are dozens of features in Linux which can give Gnome quite big advantage.

    This Fedora release is great. I'm using KDE spin of course. Messed up Kubuntu can go home.
    You are very misinformed. It's one thing to say that you don't like it or disagree with it, but it's another thing to say that there is no basis around their decisions. If you subscribe to their mailing list you will see plenty of discussion justifying a lot of things and links here and there about usability studies and so on.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by hubick View Post
      This is my first exposure to Gnome 3.
      It seems like it takes between two and three times as many interactions (motions/clicks) to do pretty much everything! Launching apps, switching apps, switching desktops, this all takes longer. And WHY? How does a piece of software doubling the time required to complete the main activities it's responsible for not count as complete FAIL? Do I really have to move all the way top left and then all the way right to switch desktops? How is having one screen with a mountain of app icons all lumped together possibly better than organized in menus??
      1) Instead of moving your mouse to the upper left to bring up the dashboard, try your Windows key (assuming your keyboard has one, the Command key on macs also works).

      2a) Instead of navigating through menus, you can immediately start typing the program name if you know it.

      2b) If you don't know the name of the app, the categorized menus are still available on the right-hand side of the Applications tab. By default, it shows you 'All' applications in a huge alphabetized list, but the sub-categories are still available to browse through.


      I haven't gotten the hang of all of the new shortcuts yet, but I prefer GS over Unity myself. Unfortunately, at the moment the Nvidia blob and GS multi-monitor doesn't get along. I'm not sure if that's Gnome's fault or Nvidia's, and I don't need it often enough to bother finding out.

      My first Gnome Shell experience was a little scary, but I told myself I'd give it a few weeks to learn to use it, and it's worked well enough that I haven't bothered to go back.

      Now to go create a live USB of the new Fedora release and try it out (the wife found a spare 2GB stick in a pile of her conference swag).

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      • #18
        Oh boy, I hate F 15 with a passion because of Gnome 3.
        No minimize, no maximize, no shutdown, no reboot option, no nothing.
        And as if that's not annoying as hell yet - I can't put any file on my desktop!
        I wonder if there can be wackier decisions than these, really, I'm not kidding, I can't come up with something wackier. What's next - no right-click mouse events?
        Anyway, that's not a new usability paradigm folks, neither a new design as such, it's simply asininity from the Gnome 3 designers. Period.

        I don't like Unity3D either, but only because it's glitchy and not yet finished - which will change (with 11.10 hopefully). I do see real (future) value in Unity though - it saves a lot of vertical space.

        So I switched back to Ubuntu 10.10 from 11.04 and waiting for 11.10 in hopes for a finished and fixed Unity. No wacky Gnome 3 though because their problem is not technical and hence won't likely be fixed.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by cl333r View Post
          Oh boy, I hate F 15 with a passion because of Gnome 3.
          No minimize, no maximize, no shutdown, no reboot option, no nothing.
          And as if that's not annoying as hell yet - I can't put any file on my desktop!
          I wonder if there can be wackier decisions than these, really, I'm not kidding, I can't come up with something wackier. What's next - no right-click mouse events?
          Anyway, that's not a new usability paradigm folks, neither a new design as such, it's simply asininity from the Gnome 3 designers. Period.

          I don't like Unity3D either, but only because it's glitchy and not yet finished - which will change (with 11.10 hopefully). I do see real (future) value in Unity though - it saves a lot of vertical space.

          So I switched back to Ubuntu 10.10 from 11.04 and waiting for 11.10 in hopes for a finished and fixed Unity. No wacky Gnome 3 though because their problem is not technical and hence won't likely be fixed.

          gnome-tweak tool is an answer for you.
          http://live.gnome.org/GnomeTweakTool

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          • #20
            Originally posted by cl333r View Post
            Oh boy, I hate F 15 with a passion because of Gnome 3.
            No minimize, no maximize, no shutdown, no reboot option, no nothing.
            And as if that's not annoying as hell yet - I can't put any file on my desktop!
            I wonder if there can be wackier decisions than these, really, I'm not kidding, I can't come up with something wackier. What's next - no right-click mouse events?
            Anyway, that's not a new usability paradigm folks, neither a new design as such, it's simply asininity from the Gnome 3 designers. Period.

            I don't like Unity3D either, but only because it's glitchy and not yet finished - which will change (with 11.10 hopefully). I do see real (future) value in Unity though - it saves a lot of vertical space.

            So I switched back to Ubuntu 10.10 from 11.04 and waiting for 11.10 in hopes for a finished and fixed Unity. No wacky Gnome 3 though because their problem is not technical and hence won't likely be fixed.
            Shutdown can be added to the menu with an official extension from the fedora repos. AFAIK there is also a way to bring the minimize button back, and probably a way to bring back desktop icons.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mdias View Post
              You are very misinformed. It's one thing to say that you don't like it or disagree with it, but it's another thing to say that there is no basis around their decisions. If you subscribe to their mailing list you will see plenty of discussion justifying a lot of things and links here and there about usability studies and so on.
              I don't understand why they didn't include this in their articles? If they were making such decisions only inside the project such decisions are unjustified - "By Gnomes for Gnomes".

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              • #22
                Well, I'm a fedora fellow since it was Red Hat Linux, and I've never seen such a buggy and incomplete interface.

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                • #23
                  I guess you haven't tried F9 + KDe 4.0. What a wonderful disaster it was. But it became pretty usable when KDE 4.1 appeared in the updates.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                    I don't understand why they didn't include this in their articles? If they were making such decisions only inside the project such decisions are unjustified - "By Gnomes for Gnomes".
                    I would like to see it all in one place too. Don't know why they don't do it, maybe they lack the time to do it. That doesn't mean they don't listen to you or that their decisions are unjustified. It's in your best interests to join the discussion on the list.
                    Here are some points that were taken into account when designing GNOME 3: https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011...inter-control/


                    Really, if you are interested in this kind of stuff, you'll like reading the gnome-shell-list.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Xeno View Post
                      I guess you haven't tried F9 + KDe 4.0. What a wonderful disaster it was. But it became pretty usable when KDE 4.1 appeared in the updates.
                      KDE wasn't ready for production yet. It was aimed at end users with 4.2 release. :P

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mdias View Post
                        Really, if you are interested in this kind of stuff, you'll like reading the gnome-shell-list.
                        Thanks, I will take a look at some things.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Xeno View Post
                          I guess you haven't tried F9 + KDe 4.0. What a wonderful disaster it was. But it became pretty usable when KDE 4.1 appeared in the updates.
                          Actually I never tried fedora + kde. Always been stick with gnome.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                            Simply, usability studies. I took a look at gnome.org about gnome shell usability and I didn't find anything than: we did the change, because it will improve usability and end user experience etc. This is bullshit and there are no real explanation why they did what they did. I consider Unity is great right now and will be much better in the future. I'd love to see Gnome throwing shell away in the name of Unity. Fedora (so systemd, btrfs, spice and other features)+Unity+the rest of Gnome3 will be a great distribution (much better than Ubuntu imho). If there's still hope Gnome3 will become Linux only and someone fill fix the damn shell it will be also great. There are dozens of features in Linux which can give Gnome quite big advantage.

                            This Fedora release is great. I'm using KDE spin of course. Messed up Kubuntu can go home.
                            " Usability Studies " ? i dont see any so called studies? got any links to prove these theories of yours? can you theme Unity shell? NO go over to the gnome mailing list an you'll get some facts why the Gnome-shell is so much better than Unity, maybe you should of did that before you made yourself look stupid.

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                            • #29
                              Yep people are going to beat the crap out of the gnome team.
                              Linux is going to be stuck on 10/08, fedora 14 and the various mint's etc etc.
                              They just lost the game.
                              It was going to well. Someone had to jump up and throw a monkey wrench in it. You can't have free software threatening 150 billion market cap crapple.

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                              • #30
                                I've been trying to find a UI that works equally well for touch screen as well as "traditional" input. I've been trying Ubuntu's Unity (too restrictive), Xfce+Compiz (not designed for such use -> real fast, but too buggy), KDE4 (very "touch-unfriendly") and finally landed at Gnome shell that actually did most of what I needed - you hit the tablet (or keyboard) "Windows" button and you get the realtime task manager, you pull running app windows from there to the side and they are automatically moved to additional virtual desktops as needed.

                                Very touch-friendly already at this early stage. Thankfully, as already mentioned, there is some tweaking possible, but there's still a long way to go to reach previous gconf-editor bliss

                                Unfortunately Linux drivers don't support multitouch for my screen so my experience is restricted to single touch :/ Still, I think touch input is the future, so gnome shell looks like a step in the right direction.

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