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openSUSE 11.3 Pulls In New Kernel & More

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  • #31
    Originally posted by monraaf View Post
    There's only so much PR can do to overshadow Novell's shady Microsoft dealings. SuSe Linux was actually my first Linux distro. But nowadays I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.
    Any sensible reason? Opensuse has nothing to do with Microsoft at all.

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    • #32
      There is no sensible reason, people love to hate on novell for absolutely no reason, its annoying.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#...with_Microsoft

      That "shady deal" is what everyone gets so up in arms about.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
        There is no sensible reason, people love to hate on novell for absolutely no reason, its annoying.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#...with_Microsoft

        That "shady deal" is what everyone gets so up in arms about.
        And then, those same people, go and use Gnome which embraces Mono/.NET, the result of the Novell/MS deal.

        Go figure.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          And then, those same people, go and use Gnome which embraces Mono/.NET, the result of the Novell/MS deal.

          Go figure.
          ...glorifying Canonical and using Ubuntu, which forces user to install mono (mono is default component, Ubuntu does not have configurable installation)

          Opensuse does not install mono by default, and if some installation scenario include mono packages, you can kick them out and lock before installation itself.


          PS.: It is funny Microsoft contributed more lines of code under GPL, then most of distributions these p ideological purist love

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
            There is no sensible reason, people love to hate on novell for absolutely no reason, its annoying.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#...with_Microsoft

            That "shady deal" is what everyone gets so up in arms about.
            That "no sensible reason" is what caused a Novell employee to resign.

            Jeremy Allison Has Resigned from Novell to Protest MS Patent Deal

            The legendary Jeremy Allison (of Samba fame) has resigned from Novell in protest over the Microsoft-Novell patent agreement, which he calls "a mistake" which will be "damaging to Novell's success in the future."

            His main issue with the deal, though, is "that even if it does not violate the letter of the licence, it violates the intent of the GPL licence the Samba code is released under, which is to treat all recipients of the code equally." He leaves the company at the end of this month. He explained why in a message sent to several Novell email lists, and the message included his letter to management:

            "Whilst the Microsoft patent agreement is in place there is *nothing* we can do to fix community relations. And I really mean nothing," Allison wrote. "Until the patent provision is revoked, we are pariahs....Unfortunately the time I am willing to wait for this agreement to be changed ...has passed, and so I must say goodbye."
            But no need to rehash all this. Novell made a mistake and is now tainted because of that deal. If you wan to use Novell openSUSE that's fine with me. I don't, and they can keep their Mono shit also. Which is a big failure anyway.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by monraaf View Post
              That "no sensible reason" is what caused a Novell employee to resign.

              But no need to rehash all this. Novell made a mistake and is now tainted because of that deal. If you wan to use Novell openSUSE that's fine with me. I don't, and they can keep their Mono shit also. Which is a big failure anyway.
              People quit for idiotic reasons and paranoia all the time. The feelings of one developer is hardly proof of anything. I mean hell Shuttleworth stepped down at Ubuntu so that must mean it's not worth the effort right?

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              • #37
                Even Microsoft could be trapped in consequences of the deal:

                http://www.fenwick.com/docstore/Publ...l_defenses.pdf

                GPL has not been tested in Patent litigation yet, but if the precedent listed in thesis above is useful, hypothetical agreement allowing Novell to distribute MS IP under GPL would lead to inability to sue in future. It make sense, because you can not approve to distribute GPL code, and then use patents to forbid rights GPL grants to user.

                But this is just theory, afaik MS-Novell deal covers customers, not both companies.

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                • #38
                  Just a little more context for those who have forgotten.

                  "We've had an issue, a problem that we've had to confront, which is because of the way the GPL (General Public License) works, and because open-source Linux does not come from a company -- Linux comes from the community -- the fact that that product uses our patented intellectual property is a problem for our shareholders. We spend $7 billion a year on R&D, our shareholders expect us to protect or license or get economic benefit from our patented innovations. So how do we somehow get the appropriate economic return for our patented innovation, and how do we do interoperability. The truth is, because of the complex licensing around the GPL, we actually didn't want to do one without the other.

                  "What we were able to craft, with a lot of hard work with Novell, was an agreement essentially where we would do the technical work in a variety of different areas to improve interoperability between the two environments. And we agreed on a, we call it an IP bridge, essentially an arrangement under which they pay us some money for the right to tell the customer that anybody who uses Suse Linux is appropriately covered. There will be no patent issues. They've appropriately compensated Microsoft for our intellectual property, which is important to us. In a sense you could say anybody who has got Linux in their data center today sort of has an undisclosed balance sheet liability, because it's not just Microsoft patents. Because of the way open-source works, there's nobody who's been able to do patent coverage or patent indemnification behind that.

                  "So we built a technology bridge, and we built an IP bridge and a commercial framework that supports that. Novell said to us, 'Hey, look, if you're serious about this stuff, you better help us promote Suse Linux.' To which we said, 'You know we're trying to sell Windows, that's what we do for a living! Windows, Windows, Windows, baby! We don't do Linux that way here.'

                  "What we agreed, which is true, is we'll continue to try to grow Windows share at the expense of Linux. That's kind of our job. But to the degree that people are going to deploy Linux, we want Suse Linux to have the highest percent share of that, because only a customer who has Suse Linux actually has paid properly for the use of intellectual property from Microsoft. And we took a quota, you could say, to help them sell so much Suse Linux. That's part of the deal. We are willing to do the same deal with Red Hat and other Linux distributors, it's not an exclusive thing. But after a few years of working on this problem, Novell actually saw the business opportunity, because there's so many customers who say, 'Hey look, we don't want problems. We don't want any intellectual property problem or anything else. There's just a variety of workloads where we, today, feel like we want to run Linux. Please help us Microsoft and please work with the distributors to solve this problem, don't come try to license this individually.' So customer push drove us to where we got.

                  Steve Ballmer CEO, Microsoft

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                    There is no sensible reason, people love to hate on novell for absolutely no reason, its annoying.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#...with_Microsoft

                    That "shady deal" is what everyone gets so up in arms about.
                    I would rather blame Novell and their enterprise distro and not OpenSuse. When OpenSuse switched to KDE some Novell Gnome and mono fanboys were attacking people from OpenSuse who made such decision.

                    Original thread:

                    http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-p.../msg00548.html

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                    • #40
                      @Monraaf

                      Great quote, thank!

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