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  • #46
    For what it's worth, the Linux distro breakdown in dust's post roughly matches what we see in terms of consumer (ie non-commercial) user feedback.

    I have to admit I don't fully understand the criticism of Ubuntu here. Is the complaint that they are making lots of kernel and driver fixes but not pushing them upstream, or just that they are focusing their work on "useability" efforts which are somewhat distro-specific and wouldn't normally touch kernel or driver code anyways ?

    Put differently, is the belief that they are hoarding fixes, or just "that Shuttleworth guy is rich, he could fund more kernel development out of his own pocket" ?
    Last edited by bridgman; 12-01-2009, 10:47 AM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
      More iPhones accessing wikimedia than Ubuntu machines, whistles!

      That's, uh, eye opening. Goes to show why Linux is all but a dead end to 99.999% of commercial vendors (mainstream games and the like)...
      If I look at myself, all desktops in the company are Windows, that's 8 hours a day Windows browsing. Then I go home and maybe in a good day I use Linux for another 3-4 hours to browse the Internet. Maybe 30% of the people are forced to do Windows browsing at work?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by disi View Post
        If I look at myself, all desktops in the company are Windows, that's 8 hours a day Windows browsing. Then I go home and maybe in a good day I use Linux for another 3-4 hours to browse the Internet. Maybe 30% of the people are forced to do Windows browsing at work?
        Same could be said vice versa, perhaps a good percentage of those people that are forced to use linux at work go home and use windows at home where they can game, do multimedia stuff, or other tasks that a user may do on their time but is not a activity that they would do at work and linux not having a strong suite of apps to handle those tasks.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
          ...I have to admit I don't fully understand the criticism of Ubuntu here....
          I think we can discuss it on multiple levels:

          1) Feedback - Ubuntu is one of the system, that is derived from another system.... etc. so they patch software against Debian, instead of upstream. These patches often don't go anywhere, according to the upstream developers. With large market-share of Ubuntu, it is some kind of parasitism comparing to those, who communicate with upstream.

          2) Development - I heard many times, that if you are so lucky and meet some Canonical stuff, it is usually usable only for Canonical. For example they developed "command-not-found" utility. This program was adopted by other distributions. The developers of my favourite distributions revealed in some mailing list, that "command-not-found" was written so ugly, that they rather rewrote it from scratch instead of using ubuntu original. Or, if some Canonical stuff is considered to be quality, it is proprietary.

          3) Developers - The main objection against Greg Kroah Hartman from Canonical side was, that they are much smaller company with smaller resources, they use vanilla software etc... Now how can I understand Canonical announcement about granting Canonical developers to google? Canonical is so small, that it can't fund even one kernel/glibc/xorg... developer, but large enough to pay developers to work for Google? It unbelievable!
          Last edited by next9; 12-01-2009, 11:46 AM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by next9 View Post
            I think we can discuss it on multiple levels:

            1) Feedback - Ubuntu is one of the system, that is derived from another system.... etc. so they patch software against Debian, instead of upstream. These patches often don't go anywhere, according to the upstream developers. With large market-share of Ubuntu, it is some kind of parasitism comparing to those, who communicate with upstream.

            2) Development - I heard many times, that if you are so lucky and meet some Canonical stuff, it is usually usable only for Canonical. For example they developed "command-not-found" utility. This program was adopted by other distributions. The developers of my favourite distributions revealed in some mailing list, that "command-not-found" was written so ugly, that they rather rewrote it from scratch instead of using ubuntu original. Or, if some Canonical stuff is considered to be quality, it is proprietary.

            3) Developers - The main objection against Greg Kroah Hartman from Canonical side was, that they are much smaller company with smaller resources, they use vanilla software etc... Now how can I understand Canonical announcement about granting Canonical developers to google? Canonical is so small, that it can't fund even one kernel/glibc/xorg... developer, but large enough to pay developers to work for Google? It unbelievable!
            4) The scary amount of large projects that are saying "If it builds on ubuntu, then that's all we care about and users of other distro's can go fsck themselves."

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            • #51
              re: Canonical and Google, I thought Google was paying, not Canonical :

              http://blog.canonical.com/?p=294

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              • #52
                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                re: Canonical and Google, I thought Google was paying, not Canonical :

                http://blog.canonical.com/?p=294
                So Canonical only develops for paying customers instead of sending items upstream for the good of all.

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                • #53
                  To what part of Ubuntu's source do you not have access?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rbmorse View Post
                    To what part of Ubuntu's source do you not have access?
                    A good community commits it's fixes to the upstream projects as well rather then sitting on them and relying on someone else to seek them out and pull them in.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                      re: Canonical and Google, I thought Google was paying, not Canonical :

                      http://blog.canonical.com/?p=294
                      This seems even worse. We contribute only if someone else pay.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                        A good community commits it's fixes to the upstream projects as well rather then sitting on them and relying on someone else to seek them out and pull them in.
                        Don't forget about ubuntuone, and launchpad was just recently open-sourced (afaik some of it is still proprietary)

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by some-guy View Post
                          Don't forget about ubuntuone, and launchpad was just recently open-sourced (afaik some of it is still proprietary)
                          Both of which are pretty much ubuntu specific vs something like the openSUSE build service which allows building of packages for pretty much any mainstream distro and doesn't give a rats ass what distro you use at home.

                          http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service..._build_targets

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                            Both of which are pretty much ubuntu specific vs something like the openSUSE build service which allows building of packages for pretty much any mainstream distro and doesn't give a rats ass what distro you use at home.

                            http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service..._build_targets
                            Launchpad is a project hosting service (like Sourceforge), not a build service. It is also the best thing since sliced bread in the area of project hosting: it is tight, fast and its features are out of this world (have you seen the translation service for projects? You can login and start translating pretty any project you like, just like that!)

                            Also this doesn't provide patches upstream is pretty much bullshit. Take a look at http://patches.ubuntu.com/ and tell me they are keeping the patches to themselves. Take a look at any bug report, I dare you. They coordinate with upstream as closely as they can and actually *reject* a large number of patches to avoid diverging from upstream too much.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                              Launchpad is a project hosting service (like Sourceforge), not a build service.
                              Funny they advertise that capability. Again they commit to debian and rely on them to send them upstream projects. Nothing like passing the buck.
                              Last edited by deanjo; 12-01-2009, 01:53 PM.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                Launchpad is a project hosting service (like Sourceforge), not a build service.
                                Also this doesn't provide patches upstream is pretty much bullshit. Take a look at http://patches.ubuntu.com/
                                Oh Yeah. Launchpad is not a buildservice, although it builds packages for ubuntu (only ubuntu) and Debian is upstream.

                                Characteristic demagogy of ubuntu fan

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