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KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Released

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  • KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Released

    Phoronix: KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Released

    KDE 4.1.0 is due for release in July and in preparation of this first major update on the KDE4 code-base there was the release of KDE 4.1 Beta 1 last month. With about a month before the final release, the KDE community has today come together and released KDE 4.1 Beta 2...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjU0NA

  • #2
    July? Ouch. Their HIG isn't even finished... what are they doing?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Vadi View Post
      July? Ouch. Their HIG isn't even finished... what are they doing?
      Well, if there are no guidelines, they cannot disobey them, therewith giving them more freedom to finish up.

      From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_i...ce_guidelines:

      HIGs should be taken at face value; their recommendations and advice are meant to help developers create better applications, but developers are naturally free to break them if they think that the guidelines do not fit their application.

      So, it is not the end of the world.

      Comment


      • #4
        When do you think Debian will include KDE 4.0 in "Debian testing"?

        Maybe when KDE 5.0 is released?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sabriah View Post
          Well, if there are no guidelines, they cannot disobey them, therewith giving them more freedom to finish up.

          From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_i...ce_guidelines:


          So, it is not the end of the world.
          Okay, but I don't agree with Wikipedia this time, as that statement is more of the author's personal opinion than a standard.

          HIG is a standard. Yes, you can break standards. But it's not okay to do that. And it's not good either.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jade View Post
            When do you think Debian will include KDE 4.0 in "Debian testing"?

            Maybe when KDE 5.0 is released?
            After the freeze (Debian Lenny release), it will get into Sid, and if it doesn't have bugs, it will go into Testing after 10 days.

            Comment


            • #7
              Do you know when the freeze (Debian Lenny release) is?

              Looks like I found it:

              Release schedule
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              Though the number of release critical bugs concerns us, we are pleased
              by the overall state of lenny. Most big software packages have been
              updated to the major version that will be shipped in lenny, so we will
              be able to concentrate on polishing in the following months:

              Early of June 2008
              Freeze of the non-essential toolchain
              The "non-essential toolchain" means things like debhelper, cdbs
              and a big chunk of other things usually needed to produce binary
              packages.

              End of June 2008
              Freeze of all library packages
              This will affect all packages that produce library packages used
              by other packaged software. Packages without r-deps won't be
              frozen at this point.

              Mid of July 2008
              Full freeze
              Please don't wait with uploads for the last day before the freeze,
              thanks.

              September 2008
              Release lenny!

              Please note that we haven't decided yet on the inclusion of KDE4.1 in lenny, but plan to do so in the near future.

              How could they even consider not releasing KDE4 with lenny.

              This is just more subtle Linux sabotage.
              Last edited by Jade; 06-25-2008, 11:09 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Debian is sabotaging Linux? Bonkers.

                They have decided not to include KDE4 in Lenny though. The reason basically being KDE 4 in it's current state just isn't stable/mature enough to merit inclusion in a Debian stable release. The operative word there being stable.

                However you're perfectly welcome to install the packages in experimental(obviously not recomended if you run Etch), currently they're based on an SVN version that's slightly older than beta2, and they likely won't be updated until at least another milestone release occurs upstream (RC1 by the sound of it, but it's not set in stone or anything, just that developer's estimate).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jade
                  How could they even consider not releasing KDE4 with lenny.

                  This is just more subtle Linux sabotage.
                  You make my day

                  Oh, and Debian should rename "stable" to "rockstable". Then people may understand Debian's decisions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by oblivious_maximus View Post
                    Debian is sabotaging Linux? Bonkers.
                    Not necessarily Debian,... but individuals in Debian.

                    It is obvious to anyone with eyes that KDE has always been unnecessarily been delayed.

                    Debian tries to force GNOME upon you. GNOME is the default.

                    It is much more difficult to install KDE than GNOME.

                    Debian consciously hinders KDE uptake.

                    I have found many packages (when they exist) that are sabotaged and have been for long periods of time.

                    For example, WINE and KVM.

                    Wine is usually NOT shipped with Debian. For example the weekly builds 11-12-06 and 21-02-07 of TESTING did not have any Wine packages although the 17-12-07 version now has it.

                    The same pathetic excuse was used every time. WINE is not stable enough to be in TESTING.

                    KVM was not in weekly builds 11-12-06 and 21-02-07 of TESTING.

                    The 17-12-07 version of TESTING had an extremely old version, namely 18. We are now at version 70. And for some reason that I forget, version 18 did NOT work properly.

                    Originally posted by oblivious_maximus View Post
                    They have decided not to include KDE4 in Lenny though. The reason basically being KDE 4 in it's current state just isn't stable/mature enough to merit inclusion in a Debian stable release.
                    They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there. That way they don't have to decide how to make KDE 4 hard to install.
                    Last edited by Jade; 06-26-2008, 10:21 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There is of course a way to install KDE desktops with Debian - there are also KDE install iso images but I would just install my distro: KANOTIX - already optimized in serveral things, backports added where needed/useful and of course using KDE - currently 3.5.5, but that will change later.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jade
                        It is obvious to anyone with eyes that KDE has always been unnecessarily been delayed.

                        Debian tries to force GNOME upon you. GNOME is the default.

                        It is much more difficult to install KDE than GNOME.

                        Debian consciously hinders KDE uptake.
                        No/No/No/No. I'd say it is easier to install KDE than Gnome. There are KDE CD's for KDE, and there is CD1 out of dozens which contains Gnome (some people don't know that). KDE installs fine, Gnome needs to download many packages during installation. Gnome is always broken in the development version (Sid), KDE always works fine. Once there is a new KDE version, it will be uploaded to Sid as fast as possible (day 1 most of the time), Gnome always needs time.

                        The same pathetic excuse was used every time. WINE is not stable enough to be in TESTING.
                        You should read about the way Debian works. Testing is not a distribution to work with. Testing is automated, it gets the packages which are working on all architecturs and do not have open bugs on Sid. Sid is usable for advanced users. Wine is always the latest version in there.

                        They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there.
                        You're right, it's no surprise. KDE 4.x still has some bugs and Lenny is already in a freeze state, and Debian/stable has to be really, really stable. No one knows how KDE 4.1 will perform when it's done, but Debian wants software that is tested for some time now.
                        Last edited by d2kx; 06-26-2008, 11:24 AM.

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                        • #13
                          The biggest thing I'm looking forward to is getting KDE 4 to run fine in XP64. Sounds sick, I know, but it would make my windows sessions more bearable.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I applaud Debian for not including KDE4 in Lenny. Fedora's neglect of KDE was obvious, and now that they're trying to rectify it, it gives a new meaning to unstable (bleeding-edge distros should be the last to go KDE4-only). Even Mandriva's KDE4, while polished, seems somewhat iffy. Only openSUSE's KDE4 seems usable at all, and even there, KDE3 is much more usable on a day-to-day basis.

                            Unless one is using it for development purposes, KDE3 makes far more sense to run right now. It is much more user-friendly and less buggy. From what I have seen KDE 4.1 will be a good step forward on the usability and stability front, but I'm guessing it will be KDE 4.2 when it really comes into its own and is worth switching to from KDE3.

                            In terms of running KDE at all, Debian's KDE is among the most pleasant, and as easy as 'aptitude install kde' to get even if you don't use the KDE CD1 (I did the net-install).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by d2kx
                              I'd say it is easier to install KDE than Gnome.
                              That would be a sad indictment on the state of Debian since it is not that easy to install KDE.

                              First, very few people new to Debian, even find out there is a KDE CD.

                              One of the "accidental" acts of sabotage is to not include synaptic (a user friendly apt) on the KDE CD.

                              This means that any new user installing from the CD will give up (if they got this far) at the point of installing software not on the CD.

                              By the way the Debian installer has been flawed and buggy for years but Debian always insisted on releasing it with bugs.

                              Originally posted by d2kx
                              Gnome is always broken in the development version
                              So what you are saying is that Gnome ships (in Sid (what about Lenny?)) with loads of bugs.

                              Originally posted by d2kx
                              Originally posted by Jade
                              They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there.
                              You're right, it's no surprise. KDE 4.x still has some bugs
                              So what you are saying is that KDE 4 will NOT ship (in Sid and Lenny) if it has a few bugs.

                              But remember,... there is supposedly no bias against KDE.
                              Last edited by Jade; 06-26-2008, 08:31 PM.

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