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The GTK3 Port Of Firefox Is Making Progress, Firefox Can Run On Wayland

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  • #16
    How is Mozilla Shumway progressing? Flash won't work on Wayland, and in order to switch to GTK3, Shumway has to be a drop in replacement. I tried it a while ago, and it didn't work for video for example (which is probably 90%+ use cases for Flash these days).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
      Stop talking and invest hundreds of millions into Mozilla to make it so. I'm sure they clearly haven't a clue about the great Qt.
      No need to. Mozilla supported Qt for a while, but they didn't maintain it and never mainlined the effort. I'd prefer them to use Qt as well.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by m4tx View Post
        What's the advance of writing such an app (you can hardly create a Qt Creator project for Firefox and you still cannot use GUI designer) in Qt, only for Linux?
        Because they don't really use GTK for UI anyway. They only used it in few cases and every other part of Firefox work on XULRunner.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Rallos Zek
          And GTK 3.12 jumped the shark with forcing client side decorations. Now if you use an GTK 3 program you cannot have your window manager manage the window anymore. What kind stupid shit is that? That made a lot people sit up realize that GTK is fucking itself over.
          I'm a fan of Qt and all, but come on. That's not true at all. 3.12 doesn't FORCE "client side decorations" (I've already questioned the use of that phrase in an above post). It does encourage them though.
          HOWEVER, the fact that CSDs don't/didn't have a reliable (or any...) fallback for non-Gnome/Gnome-based (e.g. Cinnamon) window managers was horrible planning and showed exactly how much they care about non-Gnome programmers... AKA not a bit.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Rallos Zek
            And GTK 3.12 jumped the shark with forcing client side decorations. Now if you use an GTK 3 program you cannot have your window manager manage the window anymore. What kind stupid shit is that? That made a lot people sit up realize that GTK is fucking itself over.
            What kind of stupid shit is it? Made up shit, that's what kind. You're spouting nonsense, since everything you've just said is absolutely untrue. GTK3 *supports* client-side decorations, but it doesn't require them, and they're not in use on any released version of Gnome (though may be used on Wayland).

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            • #21
              Originally posted by _SXX_ View Post
              Because they don't really use GTK for UI anyway. They only used it in few cases and every other part of Firefox work on XULRunner.
              You mean XUL, XULRunner is a bootstrap for XPCOM and XUL application.

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              • #22
                I dont care if they use GTK3, QT, or native X, or whatever else.
                I just care that they use something supported by Wayland really.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by iniudan View Post
                  You mean XUL, XULRunner is a bootstrap for XPCOM and XUL application.
                  Might have missread the first time, for some reason I read that XULRunner was the GUI, instead of most Firefox running on XULRunner, I really need to stop reading forum late at night. =p

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                    What kind of stupid shit is it? Made up shit, that's what kind. You're spouting nonsense, since everything you've just said is absolutely untrue. GTK3 *supports* client-side decorations, but it doesn't require them, and they're not in use on any released version of Gnome (though may be used on Wayland).
                    But... they're used in Gnome 3.12 applications... which are released...
                    /me shuts up now
                    Last edited by Daktyl198; 06-25-2014, 11:33 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                      But... they're used in Gnome 3.12 applications... which are released...
                      /me shuts up now
                      based on how you use headerbar. at least what little i toyed with gnome 3.12 and glade+vala
                      disable title bar=true and then add that headerbar to window. if you don't disable titlebar, titlebar will be present as normally. as far as i saw headerbar is just container with added functionality like window dragging, close button, centred title with subtitle and you can add anything you want inside, just like any other container. it's actually great widget to work with and that comes from person who was not really happy how gtk is evolving

                      based on what i saw, i wouldn't say csd is used. but, as i said i'm not really reliable source
                      Last edited by justmy2cents; 06-26-2014, 12:15 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Rallos Zek
                        GTK is not gaining steam, see the host of projects abandoning it because its a clusterfuck to work with and the APIS are ever changing.
                        This IS true, but a bit shortsided. GTK+, particularly with the 3.12 has a lot of improvements. it absolutely kills any other gtk+ release. Sure there has been breakage, but much of it needed to happen. And really, most people are frustrated over theming breakage or the perceived problem of CSD, more than anything else. in the CSD case, SSD sucks crap, imho ; ie: drawing the decoration separate from the rest of the app is whack. It doesn't look good, creates complexity, etc....

                        gtk/CSS theming is getting to a point where there will never be a need for gtk "engines". You can do it all in css, not need to maintain some chunk of code to draw buttons a certain way or whatever. On top of that, you can finally do some nice stuff in 3.12 - much nicer than previous gtk releases. [and it's not hard to hack together an "override" for adwaita to make it look how you want, without having to maintain a full gtk[2/3/metacity] theme and it will get even easier, when CSD is the norm.

                        Originally posted by Rallos Zek
                        I too once had hope that GTK would pull itself together but its way too tied to Gnome to care about the needs of app developers outside of the Gnome desktop ecosystem.
                        I do agree with you here, it's usually an after thought to support non-gnome stuff...a bit annoying. I do wish they would play with all of the other kids in the sandbox

                        Originally posted by Rallos Zek
                        And GTK 3.12 jumped the shark with forcing client side decorations. Now if you use an GTK 3 program you cannot have your window manager manage the window anymore. What kind stupid shit is that? That made a lot people sit up realize that GTK is fucking itself over.
                        I don't use mutter / GS [?] ... what Am i doing wrong / how come I have a working Desktop? lol. ... Give me some real examples of how my window manager can't manage windows anymore???

                        In my case, i am using a few components; compiz, cairo-dock, gnome-flashback; minux gnome-panel and also nautilus with some of ubuntu's patches... The only rouch edge is compiz' "resize plugin" miscalculates CSD decorations [since shadows are drawn in CSD/toolkit, not by WM... which is better anyway and it's a minor issue]. Aside from that, the only horror story i have [that's not a horror story at all] is i did have a CSD app lock [only once] and had to forcekill it, since the app/window couldn't focus. [but that's after using 3.12 for a while now... no other problems and was solved with 2 clicks via "windows killer" widget in Cairo-dock... or is your idea of not letting the WM manage windows mean "no maximize or minimize buttons"? [gtkbuttonbar supports that, there is a setting in gsettings for it]... and aside from all of that - i only see CSD in Gnome apps, not others.

                        anyway, aside from the odd rough edge, gtk+ 3.12+ is shaping nicely. I don't think it is as bad as you say.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
                          based on how you use headerbar. at least what little i toyed with gnome 3.12 and glade+vala
                          disable title bar=true and then add that headerbar to window. if you don't disable titlebar, titlebar will be present as normally. as far as i saw headerbar is just container with added functionality like window dragging, close button, centred title with subtitle and you can add anything you want inside, just like any other container. it's actually great widget to work with and that comes from person who was not really happy how gtk is evolving

                          based on what i saw, i wouldn't say csd is used. but, as i said i'm not really reliable source
                          I never said the header bar was bad (and I'm not the guy that said it was forced...), I just say it's not _really_ CSD. Like you said, it's basically a container: you can place certain buttons/objects inside, but it's not like you can just draw whatever you want in it and have it flow to the container below it (e.g. a web browser with CSD/tabs-in-titlebar)

                          Also, Gnome's CSD is used throughout most Gnome in-house applications at this point. Nautilus, gnome-system-monitor, archive-manager, calculator, gedit, etc etc. One place I'm surprised to not see it is in gnome-terminal, which I'm sure is coming soon (they were probably focusing on the non-tech-user facing apps first). But yeah, I'd say that ~75% of Gnome apps use their header bars at this point.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
                            based on what i saw, i wouldn't say csd is used. but, as i said i'm not really reliable source
                            CSD is used in Gnome apps [some still haven't been ported yet]. But nautilus, gedit, disks, tweak-tool, system-settings and some other bits do use CSD 100%

                            It's easy to tell the difference if you have a compositing WM that can do wobbly windows [kwin, compiz]. With SSD if you move the window around fast enough - you will see that the edges between decoration/window bar and window are not in sync - you may see bleeding, or possibly the image behind the window come through... With CSD - it's all one surface - so wobbling a window actually renders properly. Here is an example; [screenshot on left-side of screenshot; of Gnome-terminal, as SSD app with window separation && nautilus, an SSD app being violently shaken; ZERO separation, obviously..]



                            not that i need wobbly windows [cause i don't]. But they show one stupid detail of rendering decorations separate from their window/contents. [another is resizing, moving windows, which is more taxing with SSD].

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                              I never said the header bar was bad (and I'm not the guy that said it was forced...), I just say it's not _really_ CSD. Like you said, it's basically a container: you can place certain buttons/objects inside, but it's not like you can just draw whatever you want in it and have it flow to the container below it (e.g. a web browser with CSD/tabs-in-titlebar)

                              Also, Gnome's CSD is used throughout most Gnome in-house applications at this point. Nautilus, gnome-system-monitor, archive-manager, calculator, gedit, etc etc. One place I'm surprised to not see it is in gnome-terminal, which I'm sure is coming soon (they were probably focusing on the non-tech-user facing apps first). But yeah, I'd say that ~75% of Gnome apps use their header bars at this point.
                              you probably misunderstood my comment. csd is painting on actual titlebar managed by wm. using headerbar requires you to disable it and use part of your window for wm operations, but you don't paint on it. it looks like csd, it works like csd, but it is not csd

                              what you see in gnome is headerbar with disabled titlebar. i'd guess that headerbar on wayland will work like real csd, right now it is just nearest hacked end result

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                              • #30
                                FF+WL=Emilio you get all the internetz. Good news at last.

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