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  • Features On The Roadmap For GTK+

    Phoronix: Features On The Roadmap For GTK+

    Yesterday the GTK+ gestures support branch was merged but besides that basic gestures support within the GNOME tool-kit, there's also many other features and improvements on the agenda for GTK+ developers...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY5OTA

  • #2
    Re

    They didn't want to collaborate with other projects(Qt projects had to suffer the most, like KDE, but now GTK is dropping drastically in popularity, so...), now they have to catch up...
    Proper cross-platform support, scene graph, better documentation - sounds like they try to catch up with the features Qt already had for years...

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    • #3
      I thought that they weren't working towards xplatform support in particular but would accept patches? This seems a waste of resources, but I don't pay their salaries so I guess rh is happy with this.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by liam View Post
        I thought that they weren't working towards xplatform support in particular but would accept patches? This seems a waste of resources, but I don't pay their salaries so I guess rh is happy with this.
        Qt supports Windows, Windows Phone (IIRC), OS X, Linux (X Server), Linux (Wayland), iOS, AND Android..... If GTK doesn't get Cross-platform support in, its dead.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ericg View Post
          Qt supports Windows, Windows Phone (IIRC), OS X, Linux (X Server), Linux (Wayland), iOS, AND Android..... If GTK doesn't get Cross-platform support in, its dead.
          Qt has pretty much always had better cross platform support. This hasn't changed recently. Why would this suddenly kill GTK if it hasn't before?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by tuubi View Post
            Qt has pretty much always had better cross platform support. This hasn't changed recently. Why would this suddenly kill GTK if it hasn't before?
            Because drama.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tuubi View Post
              Qt has pretty much always had better cross platform support. This hasn't changed recently. Why would this suddenly kill GTK if it hasn't before?
              Because up until now it was "okay" for GTK to say "Well we support Linux and kinda OS X... Windows if you're desperate." Now they've got Windows, WinRT, OS X, iOS, Android, Tizen, Mer, Firefox OS, 2 different windowing systems on Linux that they have to support, and who the hell knows what else is going to come. What developer is going to pick GTK to code their stuff in if they can pick Qt and have a much easier time supporting many platforms?

              Especially NEW developers? I direct your attention to the recent GTK --> Qt conversion by Subsurface. Crappy theming on multiple platforms was the smallest of the dev's problems, add in shotty documention and hostile developers and you have a recipe for disaster for GTK.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                Qt supports Windows, Windows Phone (IIRC), OS X, Linux (X Server), Linux (Wayland), iOS, AND Android..... If GTK doesn't get Cross-platform support in, its dead.
                What? First, gtk shouldn't be competing with qt. It doesn't have the resources. What it can aspire to is to be the native toolkit for Linux. Again! Of prefer it be EFL but gtk is the closest second that can fulfill that role. Qt is just to concerned with working everywhere than targeting a single platform in the cleanest way.
                In addition to being the native tk gtk should strive to make development as easy as possible (again, that's why I'd prefer something like EFL with its edje). It is, at least, being developed with gnome in mind so developing gnomic apps should be more natural than other tks. While I really don't like gnome design, I think developing the toolkit in conjunction is a smart move.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                  Blah!
                  Ah, sorry. Didn't see your "I LUV Qt" badge and the glint of all-devouring hatred in your eyes. My bad, carry on.

                  But seriously. A dive log switches to Qt and now we must all do the same or die a horrible death? But... but what if I actually like working with GTK and think that the documentation is fine. And what if I don't usually care about platforms other than desktop Linux? I know, I know... I must be insane. Anyone know a good therapist?

                  disclaimer: I use Qt when portability is an actual concern, but I prefer GTK for anything else. I've never liked any version of gnome though.

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                  • #10
                    Why would GTK be dead?

                    There's still desktops using it, there's still software using it... not everyone cares about running on tablets and phablets and iOS and whatever, some apps don't need all that cross-platform junk, and they may be perfectly satisfied with GTK.

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                    • #11
                      I just wish they would gtk actually not look like shit on desktops that aren't gtk based. (Windows, KDE, etc) Hopefully that is what they mean by better cross platform compatability.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ua=42 View Post
                        I just wish they would gtk actually not look like shit on desktops that aren't gtk based. (Windows, KDE, etc) Hopefully that is what they mean by better cross platform compatability.
                        It's not, although they are working on the Windows theme. Work on GTK in KDE is mostly done by the KDE developers creating themes for GTK and making use of toolkit features like ARGB to get rounded menus and the such. Oxygen-GTK is, in many cases, a special theme engine for GTK 2 and to some extent GTK 3. So, although the font rendering is a bit different and the widget layout looks dissimilar between toolkits, a lot of work has been put into making this a non-issue. The typical user shouldn't notice the discrepancy- of course, this work needs to be redone for future KDE themes. If it weren't for QGtkStyle and the Oxygen developers, the visuals would be irredeemable in both desktops.

                        So far as portability, the hope is that by supporting Wayland well it will be easier to use GTK on other form factors either by running Wayland natively or perhaps running Wayland within another environment, sort of like a portable framebuffer. But really, GTK devs will need to take the easiest route to success with the platforms they are most concerned with. There simply aren't enough resources to become the miracle toolkit like Qt is.

                        Also, I don't think everyone needs to move to Qt- GObject introspection makes GTK a highly usable choice for developers of various languages without giving ugly/impartial support. Qt has some bindings for Python, among other things, but C++ is the only way to access all of Qt's features at the moment. Qt itself is nice for users, but not necessarily for every developer. That said, it would be worth it to learn Qt if you want to make high performance mobile apps someday.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by liam View Post
                          What it can aspire to is to be the native toolkit for Linux.
                          They don't want to be the native toolkit for Linux, they want to be the native toolkit for the Gnome desktop. Anything else is an afterthought, even other gtk+ Linux desktop environments like XFCE.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tuubi View Post
                            And what if I don't usually care about platforms other than desktop Linux?
                            That is still a problem. Unless you only care about the Gnome desktop, you aren't the sort of person gtk+ is targeting anymore.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tuubi View Post
                              Qt has pretty much always had better cross platform support. This hasn't changed recently. Why would this suddenly kill GTK if it hasn't before?
                              while being right, you're missing one point. Gtk had worse cp than Qt forever, true. but, but gap in quality of cp between gtk-3 and gtk-2 is even larger than it ever was in Qt<=>Gtk. gtk-3 it self being as unstable as it is was double edged sword which prevents making any bindings for other languages. there is simply no point in doing that if you don't know if next .x version will still run with it or not. but, if i write app in vala, then Gtk is all fine and dandy. then again, writing cp app in vala... i could as well use hammer on my knees in hope i'll sprint faster

                              but, being that i was one of those vocal people who criticized this... at least they seem like are finally getting the clue and seeing the plans to finally address the issues, FINALLY!!! even though it is a little to late since developers are flocking to Qt. and more, it seems like sane plan with vision.

                              still, has to be said... they are making one grand mistake in them. one of the plans for gtk-4 is scene graph, which is really bad decision. don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with scene graph, but... currently, gtk has never come up with even basic sensible scene graph as part of the plan and if they plan to stall gtk-4 while toying with experimentation to finally get it right in both API and implementation wise... good luck, 4 is suddenly so far away and all this meant nothing. i know that if it was up to me i'd make scene graph in separate lib as part of official gtk and make it as non blocking part of version 4. this way people doing bindings could simply ignore it and add it to their bindings later when it is stable. but, at the same time gtk could keep API/ABI stability for 4 while 4 would still retain unstable parts.

                              as much as i respect gtk, developers should really get their head straight and decide what matters more. retaining those last non-gnome developers or catering gnome. and before it is said... yes, i know most developers are gnome people, but go on gtk site to read its mission. yep, clear mission. go on gnome site and read theirs... it translates into "we wanna do awesome, but we have no clue how to do it, so we'll just randomly experiment and hope our hammer hits the nails". and when bad vision controls the right one, something is really wrong here

                              gnome going all political and fashion controlled was the worst thing that could ever happen to gtk
                              Last edited by justmy2cents; 05-25-2014, 09:23 AM.

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