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Mozilla's Route For Implementing W3C EME (HTML5 DRM)

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  • #16
    I hope you can stop the DRM blob from loading in the sandbox so it doesn't even save to disk, load into memory, download, and/or even run as I don't want any DRM in my browser whatsoever sandboxed or not. I will patch and recompile Firefox myself if I have to.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      Yeah, nowhere in there does it say anything about actual Linux support. I'd be surprised if the initial release has it, i bet it's windows only at least to begin with.
      I wouldn't be surprised if it has desktop Linux support. This is basically the only platform for which this is interesting.

      Windows (all variants) will have Microsoft's DRM, OSX and iOS will have Apple's, Android and ChromeOS will have Google's.
      Linux is the only platform that does not have a CDM as a system component, the only platform where a browser needs to bring its own.
      Well, "only" might be tad too restrictive, not sure if BlackBerry has its own DRM and of course all other free OSs are in the same boat as Linux as far as system provided CDMs go.

      Cheers,
      _

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      • #18
        You could probably delete the blob file-or just pin Firefox

        Originally posted by pouar View Post
        I hope you can stop the DRM blob from loading in the sandbox so it doesn't even save to disk, load into memory, download, and/or even run as I don't want any DRM in my browser whatsoever sandboxed or not. I will patch and recompile Firefox myself if I have to.
        First of all, including the blob directly would make Firefox non-free and kick it out of the default repos of many distros, so this would have to be in a separate package. It would prevent the release of Firefox under the GPL for sure, as the licenses would be incompatable. I expect to see the package show up in non-free repos alongside Adobe Flash.

        Certainly I will not permit Adobe's CDM module in any machine I control, nor would I install any package that did bundle it with Firefox. I would take that package, un-tar it, delete the blob, make a new Debian package and install that. Real worst-case is Adobe gives Mozilla a license to allow compiling it in, then you would in fact have to compile Firefox from source. Surely that would cause one of the free-only distros like Trisquel to offer a Firefox package with the CDM module removed.

        Mozilla is in an ugly position on this one: too many users refuse to give up DRM'ed content, now estimate at 30% of all web traffic by bit volume. Mozilla blames Netflix, Amazon Video, Hulu for this, I have literally never seen a video or the websites of any of them. They are moving away from Flash and Silverlight, which support DRM, to HTML5 which does not by default. Mozilla's efforts to force Hollywood's greed pigs to abandon DRM have failed, and maybe Mozilla has concluded that those of us who don't watch TV or use paid content at all won't keep their browser afloat.

        Those of us who do NOT want Hulu's Hollywood trash don't install Silverlight today and hopefully will have the option of not installing this blob anyway. BTW, if you use your browser in RAM as I do this plugin will fail: with the randomely generated "unique identifer" that will be sent to Hollywood's DRM servers stored locally only in RAM, it will go away at reboot and your DRM files will become unplayable unless you can crack them open by other means.

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        • #19
          This is why I can't really hold conversations with other open source advocates.


          Nobody seems to understand that businesses are there to make money, and they want to protect their money. That means they're -going- to use DRM, whether tech literates like it or not. Because for every tech literate, there is a thousand others who don't care about how it works, just that it works.

          And lets say Firefox keeps a stand of not implementing HTML5 DRM, a couple things could happen.

          One, people will just use a different browser that works, and be annoyed that firefox doesn't work. Mozilla wouldn't stand to profit if people did that.

          Two, media distributors will simply not move to HTML5 based solutions if they feel that not having FF support will hurt them, which is a loss for Linux period with current DRM solutions. This one is more likely.


          One has to understand, a business exists to make money, and that will never change. DRM free will unfortunately never be standard. I'll take a crappy HTML5 binary blob over Silverlight/flash. It'll be progress.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by pouar View Post
            I hope you can stop the DRM blob from loading in the sandbox so it doesn't even save to disk, load into memory, download, and/or even run as I don't want any DRM in my browser whatsoever sandboxed or not. I will patch and recompile Firefox myself if I have to.
            To run the DRM blob you first need to manually download it, Mozilla will not ship it. So just say no when Hulu or some other DRMd service ask you to download it.

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            • #21
              Nobody like Netflix is going to allow it to be trivial to copy their stuff. Anyone thinking that they'd serve an unencrypted stream is living in cloud cuckoo land. You may not like Mozillas methodology, but I for one would like to run Netflix in Linux without a wrapper.

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              • #22
                Mozilla sells out on another issue, surprise! The act of supporting this is not justified by the mitigative measures (not included, sandbox). It goes against Mozilla's mission and posted values; they simply chose money.

                Originally posted by Helios747 View Post
                One, people will just use a different browser that works, and be annoyed that firefox doesn't work. Mozilla wouldn't stand to profit if people did that.
                ...
                One has to understand, a business exists to make money, and that will never change. DRM free will unfortunately never be standard. I'll take a crappy HTML5 binary blob over Silverlight/flash. It'll be progress.
                Originally posted by wikipedia
                The Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit organization that exists to support and lead the open source Mozilla project.
                ...
                The Mozilla Foundation describes itself as "a non-profit organization that promotes openness, innovation and participation on the Internet."

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Helios747 View Post
                  Nobody seems to understand that businesses are there to make money, and they want to protect their money.
                  I doubt you will find a lot of people who would argue on that.

                  However, a lot of people detest their rights being reducded or taken away or loopholes in law being used against them so that a few businesses can have the luxury of not having to compete in an open market,

                  Originally posted by Helios747 View Post
                  One has to understand, a business exists to make money, and that will never change. DRM free will unfortunately never be standard.
                  Well, this is actually not true.
                  You might not know this yourself, but most CDs do not have DRM on their tracks, Amazon, iTunes and very likely others sell digital music without DRM and so on.

                  We can of course assume that this is only true because neither the recording industry nor Amazon nor Apple are trying to make money, but I don't think that is likely.

                  Cheers,
                  _

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                  • #24
                    An important question

                    Is it possible that an Adobe html5 plugin would be 100% dependent on browser technology and thus be 100% OS-agnostic? Or will they have a plugin for every single different platform, which is the shitty position we are today.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
                      Anyone thinking that they'd serve an unencrypted stream is living in cloud cuckoo land.
                      The problem most people have with the current for of DRM is that is designed such that it cannot be implemented in FOSS software.
                      Which has nothing do to at all with encryption.

                      FOSS crypto software is routinely used to protect financial, diplomatic and military data and transmissions, because decades of cryptography research have shown that the protection does not come from the secrecy of the algorithm but from the difficulty of the mathematical problem and the secrecy of the encryption key.

                      Yet, for whatever reason, protecting a media stream seems to require secret algorthms.

                      If you believe that DRM has anything to do with protecting the content then, as you put it so nicely, are living in cloud cuckoo land

                      Cheers,
                      _

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                        Or will they have a plugin for every single different platform, which is the shitty position we are today.
                        It will be worse.

                        The shitty position we are in today allows us to load whatever plugin is required by the server sending the content.
                        The future position we wll be in today is that we will have to use different browser depending in which system the server is using.

                        Today: if the server supports the Adobe DRM, you use Flash in whatever browser you like. If the server supports Microsoft's DRM, you use Silverlight (directly or through a wrapper) with whatever browser you like.

                        Future: if the server supports Adobe's DRM, you can use Firefox due to this new alliance. If the server supporst Microsoft's DRM, or Google's or Apple's, you switch to a browser that has that built-in.

                        The great new world of not having plugins means you switch the actual browser application when you need a different DRM system's client.

                        Awesome improvment, right?

                        Cheers,
                        _

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Some of us are using the web for non-business purposes

                          Originally posted by Helios747 View Post
                          This is why I can't really hold conversations with other open source advocates.


                          Nobody seems to understand that businesses are there to make money, and they want to protect their money. .
                          Not everything ON the web is a business. All of the far-left activist video and news work I do is done without monetization, in fact in ways designed to make tracking users or proving the identity of the source more difficult. This sort of stuff does not even interact with DRM. Nor do fan videos, music uploads by noncommercial bands, etc. If Youtube and Facebook die out, that'd fine by me. I don't use either one. I would he happy with a return to the original "bring your own server" approach with zero cloud service, and all ISP's expected to tolerate webservers if they want customers. I prefer a peer to peer model with centralized servers and the businesses that grew from them OUT of the picture. Hell, 90% of the hardware needed to replace the entire Internet and every server on it with a peer to peer mesh network is already deployed, the only missing things is high powered super-wifi for rural areas.

                          I would also be very happy to see the Hollywood model of music and movie distribution dead, so that all musicians and movie makers have equal access to distribution, the losers being that .001% who currently get rich, the winners being almost all other musicians and moviemakers. I played in a band from 1991-1993. If we had had today's Internet then, I would have released all content directly over the web and ignored the record contract mirage. Only distro I ever got was live performances and some pirate radio airtime 3,000 miles away.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post
                            Future: if the server supports Adobe's DRM, you can use Firefox due to this new alliance. If the server supporst Microsoft's DRM, or Google's or Apple's, you switch to a browser that has that built-in.

                            The great new world of not having plugins means you switch the actual browser application when you need a different DRM system's client.

                            Awesome improvment, right?

                            Cheers,
                            _
                            Let us pray to Tux and hope that they make the sane decision to build these plug-ins with browser/web technology such that the plug-ins are browser and OS-agnostic.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
                              Nobody like Netflix is going to allow it to be trivial to copy their stuff. Anyone thinking that they'd serve an unencrypted stream is living in cloud cuckoo land. You may not like Mozillas methodology, but I for one would like to run Netflix in Linux without a wrapper.
                              Guess what, since this is binary blob, you run Netflix on Linux if Adobe wants it, otherwise you can go pound sand.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                                Let us pray to Tux and hope that they make the sane decision to build these plug-ins with browser/web technology such that the plug-ins are browser and OS-agnostic.
                                You mean Mozilla or CDMs in general?

                                Because for the latter that is not very likely.
                                What I have read on the W3C mailinglist suggests that there are several ways of providing CDMs that are considered equally valid

                                1) as part of the browser
                                2) as a plugin into browsers
                                3) as a system library or service
                                4) as part of the hardware

                                Microsoft and Apple are almost certainly going to go for (3), Google might do (3) for Android but will almost certainly going for (1) for Chrome.
                                As far as I understand Mozilla's approach they are somewhere between (1) and (2), i.e. the CDM being a 3rd party plugin but currently in a host sandbox specific to that plugin.

                                Cheers,
                                _

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