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The Best Features Coming With Qt 5.3

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  • The Best Features Coming With Qt 5.3

    Phoronix: The Best Features Coming With Qt 5.3

    Qt 5.3 will be officially released in a few days time if all goes well and with this update to the Qt5 tool-kit comes some major new features...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY3MDU

  • #2
    Performance improvements are welcome. I love Qt based software, to be sure. I really wonder how much of the performance penalty in KDE comes from Qt, vs inefficient start up code in KDE's session. I've been running both the GNome Shell and Unity shell for a while in Kubuntu trusty. They both start up much faster on a cold boot. I still prefer the KDE Plasma shell, so I'll rather wait the extra few seconds (10s total from grub to a fully logged indesktop in Unity, 18 in KDE). But this is an extremely fast system (SSD for / and /home, OC'ed Haswell i5, fast RAM). My wife's lappie, even with an SSD, takes about 30s to get a full KDE session, and I'm guessing it would be 18 to 20 for a Unity shell. Oh well. Looking forward to Unity 8, which will be Qt based. If they support integration of Dolphin for filemanagement, I'm sold

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    • #3
      Qt is very lightweight.
      LXDE is switching to qt.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by mendieta View Post
        Performance improvements are welcome. I love Qt based software, to be sure. I really wonder how much of the performance penalty in KDE comes from Qt, vs inefficient start up code in KDE's session. I've been running both the GNome Shell and Unity shell for a while in Kubuntu trusty. They both start up much faster on a cold boot. I still prefer the KDE Plasma shell, so I'll rather wait the extra few seconds (10s total from grub to a fully logged indesktop in Unity, 18 in KDE). But this is an extremely fast system (SSD for / and /home, OC'ed Haswell i5, fast RAM). My wife's lappie, even with an SSD, takes about 30s to get a full KDE session, and I'm guessing it would be 18 to 20 for a Unity shell. Oh well. Looking forward to Unity 8, which will be Qt based. If they support integration of Dolphin for filemanagement, I'm sold
        well i believe your kubuntu have something wrong because my arch system cool boot to KDE 4.13 in 20 seconds using an 5400RPM laptop mechanical HDD(until my new SSD arrives) including libreoffice preload and networkmanager on WiFi and cairo dock autostart.

        dunno maybe systemd + latest glibc make the difference

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
          well i believe your kubuntu have something wrong because my arch system cool boot to KDE 4.13 in 20 seconds using an 5400RPM laptop mechanical HDD(until my new SSD arrives) including libreoffice preload and networkmanager on WiFi and cairo dock autostart.

          dunno maybe systemd + latest glibc make the difference
          Arch leaves any ubuntu variant in the dust. I don't use a SSD either and was surprised that he was talking about 20 second boot times. Boot times also depend a lot on the motherboard bios. Older bios seem to be clunky with boot times. I'm noticing the newer UEFI boot system have gained some big improvements in that area. I am sure I was achieving 20 sec boot times even on arch i686 which is not even a x64 binary. I'm talking about a cpu from 2001 which is barely even considered a desktop these days. Lets see a desktop that boots in 1 second, then I'll be impressed.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by b15hop View Post
            Arch leaves any ubuntu variant in the dust. I don't use a SSD either and was surprised that he was talking about 20 second boot times. Boot times also depend a lot on the motherboard bios. Older bios seem to be clunky with boot times. I'm noticing the newer UEFI boot system have gained some big improvements in that area. I am sure I was achieving 20 sec boot times even on arch i686 which is not even a x64 binary. I'm talking about a cpu from 2001 which is barely even considered a desktop these days. Lets see a desktop that boots in 1 second, then I'll be impressed.
            UEFI with graphics turned off
            Grub with no time allowed for boot menu
            No initramfs
            All partitions on an ssd
            Fast CPU
            Gnome Shell / Unity / Enlightenment desktop environment

            Can't guarantee 1 seconds, but should be less than 5seconds.

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            • #7
              Folks, FWIW: my desktop is not particularly optimized. It has been running ubuntu, and continuously upgrade, for many years, perhaps 9. My home directory is the same as it was back in 2000, using redhat. So I'm sure i have init services i don't need, and crap like that. I don't care that much, though faster bootup is always good.

              Anyways, it boots to lightdm in about 8 secs (measured with a script). The same script runs a konsole in the Autostart for the user who is auto logged in, and closes it, and after all of that it compares the time with the boot start time. In the case of KDE, the bootup is about 8 seconds and 10 more to complete the KDE init. Both Gnome Shell and Unity get up and running in about 2 secs.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mendieta View Post
                Folks, FWIW: my desktop is not particularly optimized. It has been running ubuntu, and continuously upgrade, for many years, perhaps 9. My home directory is the same as it was back in 2000, using redhat. So I'm sure i have init services i don't need, and crap like that. I don't care that much, though faster bootup is always good.

                Anyways, it boots to lightdm in about 8 secs (measured with a script). The same script runs a konsole in the Autostart for the user who is auto logged in, and closes it, and after all of that it compares the time with the boot start time. In the case of KDE, the bootup is about 8 seconds and 10 more to complete the KDE init. Both Gnome Shell and Unity get up and running in about 2 secs.
                Not sure how Unity and Gnome Shell do it, but KDE uses a custom bash / sh script to set the environment and then start all KDE services and then bring it all together... This is supposed to soon be replaced by a systemd .service file on all systemd systems, thankfully. The script is probably a large portion of the slowdown, once it goes away those 10 seconds SHOULD be reduced.

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                • #9
                  KDE

                  On KDE, from what I understand, if you go into system settings, session management, and change the on login to Start with empty session, you should see KDE load faster.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mendieta View Post
                    I've been running both the GNome Shell and Unity shell for a while in Kubuntu trusty. They both start up much faster on a cold boot.
                    I can't be arsed to look up the reference, but... it has nothing to do with "bloat" or any such thing. KDE's startup script and kdeinit4 have explicit (but necessary) delays in them to avoid various race conditions during startup -- this is expected to be fixed once KDE starts using systemd "user" sessions for its startup needs.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fabdiznec View Post
                      I can't be arsed to look up the reference, but... it has nothing to do with "bloat" or any such thing. KDE's startup script and kdeinit4 have explicit (but necessary) delays in them to avoid various race conditions during startup -- this is expected to be fixed once KDE starts using systemd "user" sessions for its startup needs.
                      Is there a roadmap for the systemd integration? I assume that the systemd integration is all kf5 related, as opposed to kde4?

                      Another thing: the startup script that we are all talking about is (I think) the kdm session, which I believe is the same session script that is used for the xinit session. Is any of the aforementiond "script trickiness" strictly X related, and so not an impact issue when/if we start to shift away from X based session?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jaxxed View Post
                        Is there a roadmap for the systemd integration? I assume that the systemd integration is all kf5 related, as opposed to kde4?
                        KDE SC 4.x will never support wayland. Since the systemD integration will only be for wayland (not X), it will also never appear in KDE SC 4.

                        Also, it is a workspace change, and KDE SC 4.x workspaces are in feature freeze.

                        Originally posted by jaxxed View Post
                        Another thing: the startup script that we are all talking about is (I think) the kdm session, which I believe is the same session script that is used for the xinit session. Is any of the aforementiond "script trickiness" strictly X related, and so not an impact issue when/if we start to shift away from X based session?
                        The script would probably need to be largely rewritten for wayland anyway, and very few, if any, people are comfortable enough with it to want to do any major changes on it.

                        So in short:

                        1. KDE SC 4.x: keep the script
                        2. Plasma Workspaces 2.x X11: keep the script
                        3. Plasma Workspaces 2.x wayland: use systemD.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ua=42 View Post
                          Qt is very lightweight.
                          LXDE is switching to qt.

                          I'd say it is "relatively lightweight" compared to the alternatives, but certainly not "very lightweight". QObject itself is quite bloated, like 150+ bytes just idling (about the overhead of a JS var), and getting significantly bigger as it gets connections and stuff like that. The framework itself is quite bloated, even with the "modularization" that came with version 5. Even with all the deprecated stuff Qt5 still carries quite a lot of legacy garbage hardly anyone will need in the future.

                          But still, relative to the competition, one can easily say Qt is the best (available) solution if you care about flexibility, performance and above all - portability. There is something rewarding about witting an application once and getting it to work on like 90% of the devices on the market with little to no porting at all.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MrRtd View Post
                            On KDE, from what I understand, if you go into system settings, session management, and change the on login to Start with empty session, you should see KDE load faster.
                            THIS

                            It should be the default.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fabdiznec View Post
                              I can't be arsed to look up the reference, but... it has nothing to do with "bloat" or any such thing. KDE's startup script and kdeinit4 have explicit (but necessary) delays in them to avoid various race conditions during startup -- this is expected to be fixed once KDE starts using systemd "user" sessions for its startup needs.
                              Yes, I remember that article, I also googled for it and coulnd't find it. But a hacker is looking into that. Thanks!

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