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Cross-Desktop Collaboration During FreeDesktop Summit 2014

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  • Cross-Desktop Collaboration During FreeDesktop Summit 2014

    Phoronix: Cross-Desktop Collaboration During FreeDesktop Summit 2014

    Taking place earlier this month in Nürnberg at the SUSE office was the 2014 FreeDesktop Summit where members of GNOME, KDE, Unity, and LXDE-Qt desktops collaborated over joint topics important to the success of the Linux desktop in a cross-desktop world...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY2OTI

  • #2
    On a side note:
    The Gnome guy was there just by accident. He read just “desktop” and thought it must be a Gnome-exclusive event. As we all know, developers of GTK-based DEs don't cooperate. That's why neither Mate, Cinnamon, Elementary, nor Xfce were present.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
      On a side note:
      The Gnome guy was there just by accident. He read just “desktop” and thought it must be a Gnome-exclusive event. As we all know, developers of GTK-based DEs don't cooperate. That's why neither Mate, Cinnamon, Elementary, nor Xfce were present.
      I thought Elementary uses EFL, and not GTK?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
        On a side note:
        The Gnome guy was there just by accident. He read just “desktop” and thought it must be a Gnome-exclusive event. As we all know, developers of GTK-based DEs don't cooperate. That's why neither Mate, Cinnamon, Elementary, nor Xfce were present.
        /* can't suppress my self from continuing this sadly realistic joke */

        not all that black, lol

        they finally fixed AppMenu incompatibility in 3.12 and it only took them 3.5 years (we can surely expect that in next 12 years they'll fix remaining deviations). still, there is no step ahead without 2 steps back it seems... http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-disks-...-raid-support/

        so, mdraid never worked... we have better options like btrfs (experimental) and zfs (lol, no real world testing beside being done on fuse). sometimes, i really want to buy plane ticket just to smack one gnome developer, lol

        then again, it got awesome CSD... huh? ok, whatever

        Originally posted by nerdopolis View Post
        I thought Elementary uses EFL, and not GTK?
        yes. but, name elementary is used for gtk based distro too. they have nothing in common
        http://docs.enlightenment.org/auto/elementary/
        http://elementaryos.org/
        Last edited by justmy2cents; 04-21-2014, 10:52 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
          so, mdraid never worked... we have better options like btrfs (experimental) and zfs (lol, no real world testing beside being done on fuse). sometimes, i really want to buy plane ticket just to smack one gnome developer, lol
          ZFS works very well on FreeBSD. Gnome would “just“ have to support FreeBSD properly but considering that Gnome devs have even a hard time recognizing other DEs on Linux, I doubt other operating systems are even on their radar…

          Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
          then again, it got awesome CSD... huh? ok, whatever
          Look at these screenshots from a Reddit thread:
          http://i.imgur.com/Ni4PZoz.png
          https://bug727414.bugzilla-attachmen....cgi?id=273375

          There is also a screenshot by an Xfce user who wrote a runtime hack to remove the headerbars afterwards:
          https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6...headeraway.png
          https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway

          I have a tiny bit of hope that the standardization of the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP environment variable will mean that Gnome apps will hide the headerbars in anything but Gnome. Again: It's only a tiny bit of hope.

          Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
          yes. but, name elementary is used for gtk based distro too. they have nothing in common
          http://docs.enlightenment.org/auto/elementary/
          http://elementaryos.org/
          Oh, yes… the EFL widget library… forgot about that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
            ZFS works very well on FreeBSD. Gnome would “just“ have to support FreeBSD properly but considering that Gnome devs have even a hard time recognizing other DEs on Linux, I doubt other operating systems are even on their radar…
            well, main gnome installation base is linux and i wouldn't put zfs to hold trash folder there.

            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
            Look at these screenshots from a Reddit thread:
            http://i.imgur.com/Ni4PZoz.png
            https://bug727414.bugzilla-attachmen....cgi?id=273375

            There is also a screenshot by an Xfce user who wrote a runtime hack to remove the headerbars afterwards:
            https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6...headeraway.png
            https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway
            all the topics i used to whine while i was still using gnome. and worst thing is that all those could more or less be fixed without problems or disturbing desktop. that or using hammer on McCanns kbd+mouse

            most things can be solved as extensions, but doing corporate desktop where you need to rely on outside solutions just to make desktop work is definitely bad choice. if they at least put those extensions as disabled+installed

            well, i got 10 years younger when i finally had it enough with it and moved to enlightenment

            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
            I have a tiny bit of hope that the standardization of the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP environment variable will mean that Gnome apps will hide the headerbars in anything but Gnome. Again: It's only a tiny bit of hope.
            being that they use them as toolbars, all they can do is hide title.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
              well, main gnome installation base is linux and i wouldn't put zfs to hold trash folder there.
              If their argument is to not support RAID because of ZFS, they should support ZFS and FreeBSD is the place to do this these days thanks to the efforts by iXsystems and contributors.

              Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
              being that they use them as toolbars, all they can do is hide title.
              Look at the headeraway screenshot again.

              Comment


              • #8
                So much useless ranting in a thread about maybe one of the biggest things related to Linux Desktop of the year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                  On a side note:
                  The Gnome guy was there just by accident. He read just “desktop” and thought it must be a Gnome-exclusive event. As we all know, developers of GTK-based DEs don't cooperate. That's why neither Mate, Cinnamon, Elementary, nor Xfce were present.
                  That was really uncalled for.
                  GNOME is a huge community, with different people working on different aspects of the GNOME stack.
                  Even if the ones working on UI bits can sometimes come across as isolating themselves, there are also those working on base infrastructure and plumbing.

                  There is a great deal of effort spent by the latter on common specs and sharable technologies.
                  As evident by the work done at the summit and its previous installments.

                  Cheers,
                  _

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post
                    That was really uncalled for.
                    GNOME is a huge community, with different people working on different aspects of the GNOME stack.
                    Even if the ones working on UI bits can sometimes come across as isolating themselves, there are also those working on base infrastructure and plumbing.

                    There is a great deal of effort spent by the latter on common specs and sharable technologies.
                    As evident by the work done at the summit and its previous installments.
                    Hey, it's not that I like being right in such cases. I actually prefer that I'm wrong and misbehaviour of Gnome apps under non-Gnome DEs was just a side effect of changed Gnome HIGs and that those sideeffects will be remedied in Gnome 3.14 (ie. transform headerbars to regular toolbars when not running under Gnome).

                    In a related field: My information is that Gnome to this day does not officially support the StatusNotifier specs. My information is that Gnome did not adopt it because first they didn't care and later their feelings were hurt because KDE and Canonical were already solidifying the specs.
                    I really hope that I missed something and Gnome changed their attitude. So far it was a practical example of how progress is slowed down by Gnome's unwillingness to adopt specs the “competition” designed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sure, but my point is that putting all GNOME contributors into the uncooperative camp is quite unfair, as the very summit participation shows that they are individuals who care.

                      I think their efforts should be applauded, not ridiculed, especially given the rather cooperation hostile environment they seem to be in.

                      Our reactions as users of the wider Free Software deskop community should be positive towards such cooperative efforts, to encourage further actions from those already involved and maybe even get more contributors to "switch sides" and become cooperative partners as well.

                      Cheers,
                      _

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post
                        Sure, but my point is that putting all GNOME contributors into the uncooperative camp is quite unfair, as the very summit participation shows that they are individuals who care.

                        I think their efforts should be applauded, not ridiculed, especially given the rather cooperation hostile environment they seem to be in.
                        Let me get this straight: Apparently you could not correct me. Apparently StatusNotifier Items are still out and headerbars everywhere are still in.

                        And now let me give you another history lesson. Here's a (likely incomplete) list of projects that forked away from Gnome because they all could not cooperate: Cinnamon, Elementary/Pantheon, Flashback, and Mate. The latter two basically do the same thing as Xfce but instead of joining that, they rather did their own fork.
                        OTOH: LXDE realizes that GTK is a bad toolkit and decides to switch to Qt. Razor sees that and LXDE and Razor merge to form LXQt. KDE reaches out to LXQt, tells LXQt about its plans to make the KDE code base even more modular and asks LXQt for input.
                        Result: LXQt will likely use a stripped down KWin 5 as window manager.
                        Now THAT's cooperation!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                          Let me get this straight: Apparently you could not correct me.
                          Yes, I didn't attempt to correct you. What would be the point in correcting you on something you are correct about?
                          And it was emphasising the point I was making, see my previous comment.

                          Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                          OTOH: LXDE realizes that GTK is a bad toolkit and decides to switch to Qt. Razor sees that and LXDE and Razor merge to form LXQt. KDE reaches out to LXQt, tells LXQt about its plans to make the KDE code base even more modular and asks LXQt for input.
                          Result: LXQt will likely use a stripped down KWin 5 as window manager.
                          Now THAT's cooperation!
                          Did I claim anywhere that the summit was an example of the best cooperation possible?
                          I think I did not.

                          I did, however, point out that it is pretty counter productive to hold other peoples uncooperativeness over the head of people who provably are cooperating.

                          Cheers,
                          _

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