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KDE's Nepomuk Doesn't Seem To Have A Future

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  • KDE's Nepomuk Doesn't Seem To Have A Future

    Phoronix: KDE's Nepomuk Doesn't Seem To Have A Future

    It appears there isn't much of a future left to KDE's Nepomuk framework that was developed at a cost of 17 million Euros... It's going to be replaced going forward in the KDE land...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTYwNjM

  • #2
    My least favorite pokemon

    Good, I hated nepomuk.. That is always one of the first things I disable after installing linux and KDE.. It always runs in the background indexing crap and stuff....just for features that I will never use..

    Does any one else actually use any features from nepomuk?..

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    • #3
      Neposuks and Akoncrappi. Goodbye and riddance. Damn bloatware that they tried to shove down our throats.

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      • #4
        According to your article, Nepomuk does have a future: Baloo.

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        • #5
          17 million, dear lord, I hope some of the code finds it's way in Baloo otherwise such a waste of money!

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          • #6
            nepomuk and akinondi are the things that made me switch from KDE to xfce4 to never return back.

            At some point, when they integrated nepomuk into kmail, mail search stopped working! That was the culprit.

            KDE visual 3D effects are very nice but just useless when the apps are just broken by too complex middleware that have weird names.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BSDude View Post
              17 million, dear lord, I hope some of the code finds it's way in Baloo otherwise such a waste of money!
              Originally posted by Phoronix
              Baloo isn't a complete rewrite of Nepomuk as parts were derived from it and its research.

              Originally posted by lano1106 View Post
              nepomuk and akinondi are the things that made me switch from KDE to xfce4 to never return back.
              You could easily disable it: Disabling the Akonadi subsystem

              Originally posted by lano1106 View Post
              At some point, when they integrated nepomuk into kmail, mail search stopped working! That was the culprit.
              You can use Mozilla Thunderbird or whatever your heart desires instead.

              Originally posted by lano1106 View Post
              KDE visual 3D effects are very nice but just useless when the apps are just broken by too complex middleware that have weird names.
              By the way, nothing is hardwired there, you can totally get rid of them by manually compiling them or switching to a source based Linux distribution. Or if you don't like to get in trouble, you can easily disable them by modifying that configuration file (akonadiserverrc) like me.

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              • #8
                I was aware of this change back in December, I even installed and compiled Baloo and Milou, and, if you track the mailing list, the biggest fear of Vishesh Handa with this change was precisely this: that someone shouted "Nepomuk was killed". What indeed was killed is all the integration with Virtuoso, a SPARQL full server with a client/server model that made impossible to run Nepomuk in multi-user environments, and all the code derived from that. Baloo is going to use Xapian, is faster because it's smaller, but feature parity with Nepomuk is a goal.

                So, no, guys, Nepomuk isn't gone. It is going to be replaced by something that does 80% of what the original Nepomuk did, using 20% of the resources (a good twist in the 80/20 rule)

                BTW, try Baloo. I mean seriously, try it. Milou is a Spotlight clone and comes for free. Mail searching, file searching and contact parsing is lightning fast. You don't have to take my word for it, simply try it.

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                • #9
                  Just forgot something quite important:

                  Baloo, now, is architecturally similar to Tracker, but it does more than Tracker, since it is designed to reach feature parity with Nepomuk. All this is done while eating significantly less CPU than Tracker (a great effort was spent optimizing the indexers, since Nepomuk was so slow, and Baloo simply reaps from that).

                  The question is: Will the Tracker devs join Baloo? Will they refuse to cooperate with Baloo? The reverse question has a simple answer, Baloo does more than Tracker, so Tracker cannot replace Baloo, but Baloo can, theoretically, replace Tracker.

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                  • #10
                    Same here, I just hated nepomuk and akonadi.. I always wondered if they used mlocate, and if not... why. it's really cool and fast, they could have just added metadata on top of that database. nepomuk used to use LOTS of resources for no good reason (mysql? really?!?). And yes, when KDE4 came, I disabled it and moved to other DE. Now I'm back to KDE, and it's been great so far.

                    I've always had concerns with respect to my privacy, though... KDE itself is buggy and not very privacy-aware, I think, which means that anyone could have exploited any program and have access to my personal data easily. Call me crazy, but... I didn't see the nepomuk database as a good thing. The KDE devs should be aware of this (for example: what if I share my computer with other people, and I don't want to create another account for them? KDE applications store a LOT of personal data in the system...). I gotta admit, though, I'm not very knowledgeable about how these apps work.
                    Last edited by asdfblah; 02-16-2014, 11:20 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Baconmon View Post
                      Does any one else actually use any features from nepomuk?..
                      My documents folder is 1.5Gb comprised of school papers, 45 Pathfinder PDF's, personal writings, a handful of articles I had thought of submitting to Michael (only ever actually did The Wayland Situation) and a crap ton of other stuff. I'll also leave random text documents for myself as notes and reminders or how-to's for stuff. All of it IS neatly sorted, but its still more convenient to just search for the phrase or title of the file I'm looking for than traversing the directory tree.

                      Same thing with photos, its just easy to search for whatever I tagged it as or named it than it is to go through folders.

                      It really just depends on how many files you have to deal with, for me, yes, the indexing and tagging are VERY welcome features that I adore.



                      As far as whether or not Nepomuk is dead... Nepomuk itself IS dead. The ideas and code behind it? Not so much. But Nepomuk the collective term and overall project is dead.


                      And as far as whether or not Nepomuk was a resource hog... Originally, oh god yes. But in 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11 they really trimmed it down. The mailing list and related blogpost however did mention one giant kink in the software layers though: for some reason Nepomuk (and Virtuoso) fell flat on their face whenever they had to integrate with Akonadi and why was never really clearly explained. You could have JUST Nepomuk and Virtuoso without enabling Akonadi so it wasn't a major deal, but if you had Nepo and Akonadi both enabled then you had problems like people talked about, even after 4.11

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by asdfblah View Post
                        The KDE devs should be aware of this (for example: what if I share my computer with other people, and I don't want to create another account for them? KDE applications store a LOT of personal data in the system...). I gotta admit, though, I'm not very knowledgeable about how these apps work.
                        Depends on who this mystery other person is. Frankly if we shared an account I could just as easily go into Firefox and go through your browser history, or copy all the cookies from the temp folder and see where you've been, probably get your login info that way too. If we shared an account and you used a desktop email client i might be able to read your email.

                        The moment you let someone use your account you are GIVING them access to all of your associated user-specific info if they so choose. All the KDE stuff is stored under ~/.kde(4) so if you don't want someone who shares the computer getting access to that, then give them another account so that YOUR stuff is under ~/.kde(4) and THEIR stuff is under THEIR ~/.kde(4). Then the only way one of you can get into eachothers personal info is if one of you has root and chooses to snoop.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lano1106 View Post
                          nepomuk and akinondi are the things that made me switch from KDE to xfce4 to never return back.

                          At some point, when they integrated nepomuk into kmail, mail search stopped working! That was the culprit.
                          Same here, except that I didn't find anything better (I do like Dolphin, Plasma and the System Settings GUI). So, I removed KDEPIM from all my machines, disabled 'dsktop search' or whatever they call Nepomuk, but it's quite a bit of work. The end result is a basic Plasma Desktop, where I run Google Chrome, some apps from mix toolkits, including synaptic for packet management, and Thunderbird for email (yes, I went through the trouble of migrating all my email to Thunderbird, when KMail2 absolutely ruined it for me.

                          Too bad, because KDE libs are nice, and Qt is awesome.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                            Depends on who this mystery other person is. Frankly if we shared an account I could just as easily go into Firefox and go through your browser history, or copy all the cookies from the temp folder and see where you've been, probably get your login info that way too. If we shared an account and you used a desktop email client i might be able to read your email.
                            Well, in web browsers is very easy and convenient to avoid just that: Use a "incognito" session or delete everything by pressing ctrl+shift+del.

                            The moment you let someone use your account you are GIVING them access to all of your associated user-specific info if they so choose. All the KDE stuff is stored under ~/.kde(4) so if you don't want someone who shares the computer getting access to that, then give them another account so that YOUR stuff is under ~/.kde(4) and THEIR stuff is under THEIR ~/.kde(4). Then the only way one of you can get into eachothers personal info is if one of you has root and chooses to snoop.
                            In kde, as you say, you'd have to delete that folder to prevent anyone looking at your personal data...

                            For my example, I had cyber cafes in mind (which these days still exist in poor countries) and poor people's shared computers. What if devs changed things so you could use a "private session" in which you could (momentarily) disable the collection of data, by one app, or by the whole desktop environment? What if they integrated encryption, so you could access your data only by using passphrases (which would be annoying, but it could be made optional too)?

                            AFAI understand, if you want security in your applications, you have to code things with security in mind. There are lots of mechanisms in compilers and the kernels themselves to prevent the exploitation of bugs in the code, but if the applications are not written with security in mind, these mechanisms are useless.

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                            • #15
                              Nobody seems to wonder why the EU spent a whooping 17 million euros for a relatively minor software project, did they pay each programmer as much as if each of them was Linus Torvalds?

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