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Wine 1.7.2 Brings A Couple Of Changes

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  • #16
    I don't see the DX9 State Tracker. FAIL!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by wargames View Post
      Head over to winehq.org and see if all programs work, because there are a lot rated as "garbage". About the DLLs... they shouldn't need to ship MS DLLs if they are trying to emulate them. If they can't, you end up with some kind of cyborg (half emulated - half native), for sure not open source anymore (Richard Stallman would cry if you used a closed source DLL). And that's exactly my point, why use a cyborg when you can use the "real thing" ? According to winehq.org, the project started in 1993, that's 20 years. If they have not managed to achieve a working piece of software in 20 years... well, maybe they should change business. This is obviously my opinion, and I respect yours.
      Wine DOES work. Yo cannot be serious saying that every dll should be ported. Like you say it's 20 years and they are "just" developing a compatibility layer (actually wine is not an emulator). Porting the dll's cannot be done. Too much time, too few resources, and it makes no sense. Once they implement every system call that windows offer it will run EVERY app and dll (not counting bugs). Wine tries to make every dll run natively, without ports, and that's what trully matters now. Porting dll's is just a waste of time that leads nowhere, except more problems. And shipping all the dll's with wine is not viable either; it's a waste of HDD space. So anyone that wants to use wine has to install things that are needed.

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      • #18
        Waste of hdd space?

        How small is your hdd?

        I would not mind downloading bigger wine if it had more dlls and files if it would help wine to self diagnoze what files are needed.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by lequim View Post
          Wine DOES work. Yo cannot be serious saying that every dll should be ported. Like you say it's 20 years and they are "just" developing a compatibility layer (actually wine is not an emulator). Porting the dll's cannot be done. Too much time, too few resources, and it makes no sense. Once they implement every system call that windows offer it will run EVERY app and dll (not counting bugs). Wine tries to make every dll run natively, without ports, and that's what trully matters now. Porting dll's is just a waste of time that leads nowhere, except more problems. And shipping all the dll's with wine is not viable either; it's a waste of HDD space. So anyone that wants to use wine has to install things that are needed.
          Porting DLLs matters when they need to use Linux-side stuff (since winelib apps use both Linux and Win APIs), in these situations, it's crucial to port, but for other higher level code/DLLs it's not essential or even wanted, in some cases. (just to add to what you said)...

          But to correct you on one point; not shipping DLLs in Wine has NOTHING to do with being "a waste of HDD space". It is a legal matter; It is illegal for the (Wine) project to include that stuff. You are subject to Microsoft's licenses / EULA... Hence why winetricks is a script that pulls DLLs / fonts / Runtime(s) from MS' servers (which is not illegal).

          Plus (regarding instlaling DLLs), installing most of what you need is easy (unless it's wine64, which is more manual but simple too). You basically install; all fonts, all codecs, vcrun* stuff (runtimes), gdiplus, etc - and leave the rest until a specific app needs something extra. (literally, check a few boxes and let the script run, depending you may need to run it again in some situations. easy stuff).

          Originally posted by deri View Post
          I would not mind downloading bigger wine if it had more dlls and files if it would help wine to self diagnoze what files are needed.
          most of the time, you can tell what is missing by starting the app from the commandline - usually an error will appear and it is often easy to identify the missing component based on that + a quick google search, if needed.
          Last edited by ninez; 09-14-2013, 01:14 PM.

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          • #20
            I am using playonlinux because of simplicity to use.

            What I see on playonlinux debug, I don't see easy interpreted messages that give you hint what files to install.

            It should be like that wine reports files that are MOST likely to be missing.

            It goes wrong if I have to search all myself out.

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            • #21
              Here is an example of metro2033 which I tried yesterday and which have odd triangle bug in main menu.

              fixme:advapi:EventRegister {47a9201e-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361bc6f}, 0x10035160, 0x10080c68, 0x10080c60
              fixme:advapi:EventRegister {58a9201e-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361bc70}, 0x10035160, 0x10080ca0, 0x10080c98
              fixme:advapi:EventRegister {3fa9201e-73b0-43fe-9821-7e145359bc6f}, 0x10035160, 0x10080c30, 0x10080c28
              fixme:advapi:EventRegister {1432afee-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361b433}, 0x10035160, 0x10080cd8, 0x10080cd0
              fixme:advapi:EventRegister {4372afee-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361b519}, 0x10035160, 0x10080d10, 0x10080d08

              Those are from playonlinux debug.

              What should I benefit from this?

              I have no clue what's wrong.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by deri View Post
                Here is an example of metro2033 which I tried yesterday and which have odd triangle bug in main menu.

                fixme:advapi:EventRegister {47a9201e-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361bc6f}, 0x10035160, 0x10080c68, 0x10080c60
                fixme:advapi:EventRegister {58a9201e-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361bc70}, 0x10035160, 0x10080ca0, 0x10080c98
                fixme:advapi:EventRegister {3fa9201e-73b0-43fe-9821-7e145359bc6f}, 0x10035160, 0x10080c30, 0x10080c28
                fixme:advapi:EventRegister {1432afee-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361b433}, 0x10035160, 0x10080cd8, 0x10080cd0
                fixme:advapi:EventRegister {4372afee-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361b519}, 0x10035160, 0x10080d10, 0x10080d08

                Those are from playonlinux debug.

                What should I benefit from this?

                I have no clue what's wrong.
                It seems to be related to the EventRegister function from the advapi DLL.

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                • #23
                  Thanks for clearing that out. But what does advapi do?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by deri View Post
                    Here is an example of metro2033 which I tried yesterday and which have odd triangle bug in main menu.

                    fixme:advapi:EventRegister {47a9201e-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361bc6f}, 0x10035160, 0x10080c68, 0x10080c60
                    fixme:advapi:EventRegister {58a9201e-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361bc70}, 0x10035160, 0x10080ca0, 0x10080c98
                    fixme:advapi:EventRegister {3fa9201e-73b0-43fe-9821-7e145359bc6f}, 0x10035160, 0x10080c30, 0x10080c28
                    fixme:advapi:EventRegister {1432afee-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361b433}, 0x10035160, 0x10080cd8, 0x10080cd0
                    fixme:advapi:EventRegister {4372afee-73b0-42ce-9821-7e134361b519}, 0x10035160, 0x10080d10, 0x10080d08

                    Those are from playonlinux debug.

                    What should I benefit from this?
                    It gives you something to google and in the 1st page of googling there are linux forum (archlinux, near top) where someone is having a similar issue with Steam. However, in of itself, this message isn't terribly useful - but it does narrow down the scope; ie: Advapi32.dll is an advanced Windows 32 base API DLL file; it is an API services library that supports security and registry calls.

                    EDIT: if you like; post the _entire_ output from launching this app (but post it @ pastebin.com, then post a link). - I say this because it's very likely you've overlooked the actual "err: ...." in the console.

                    First thing that i would try is starting off with a fresh win32 prefix + installing this app in that. - i have a feeling something is messed up in your wine prefix (or possibly wine registry) ... if not that; possibly some files relating to wine being screwy on your file-system; like a font or something. (which would probably entail removing wine - then looking for any left over files, again, like fonts or something...)
                    Last edited by ninez; 09-14-2013, 02:48 PM.

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                    • #25
                      But I think it's wine's "duty" to inform what's wrong in clearly voice that user can fix it. Now we have non-user-readable messages that we have to google to figure out. I do have some font issue I once googled it. Don't remember anymore what it actually was, but here is the error:

                      "~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.
                      Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf", line 9: reading configurations from"

                      I just got need for speed game working. I installed 2 dinput files via playonlinux. I think they were called dinput and dinput8.


                      The issue was before that I could not use my right arrow key on the game for some reason. How do you drive a car in driving game without key working?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by deri View Post
                        But I think it's wine's "duty" to inform what's wrong in clearly voice that user can fix it. Now we have non-user-readable messages that we have to google to figure out. I do have some font issue I once googled it. Don't remember anymore what it actually was, but here is the error:
                        I had no problem understanding that message; it's a "fixme:" for a function in advapi ... You may think it is "Wine's Duty" all that you like, but that doesn't write code and as i pointed out - what you are asking for isn't simple to implement and would require huge changes all over wine's codebase... Plus, You are using a Wine fork - So it's not Wine's responsibility to fix your problems at all...In fact, you would be told to go and deal with the PlayonLinux guys, unfortunately.

                        Originally posted by deri View Post
                        "~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.
                        Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf", line 9: reading configurations from"
                        That's not Wine complaining - that is "Fontconfig" complaining. ie: you are using a deprecated font configuration on your system / nothing to do with Wine at all. I was asking for a Wine related error (or the entire output)... an error in wine's output will look much like your advapi "fixme:", except will say "err: bla bla bla"... When i was talking about fonts being messed up (possibly) i meant like a corrupt font in /usr/share/wine/fonts or something like that...

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                        • #27
                          the last few Wine fixes have been really lame

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                          • #28
                            Of course you don't have problem interpreting the messages because you are used to them.

                            I wouldn't have problem with them either if i spend more time googling and debugging and reading wine database, but that takes a lot of time to understand how wine works and what it needs to work.

                            But I think the program should post a bit more readable errors.

                            Even the developers how they know what to fix? Shouldn't it point to some file? Line? Or something?

                            I have tried several games and I have had quite poor luck with them.

                            Not accusing wine, but really hope to see some improvements on wine, drivers and linux in general.

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                            • #29
                              How can Wine change the error outputs put out by the Windows programs it is attempting to run?

                              As to this whole debate, I have had my problems with Wine, but to claim it is anything less than a huge technical achievement is indeed asinine. Even if it can never be perfect.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by deri View Post
                                Of course you don't have problem interpreting the messages because you are used to them.

                                I wouldn't have problem with them either if i spend more time googling and debugging and reading wine database, but that takes a lot of time to understand how wine works and what it needs to work.

                                But I think the program should post a bit more readable errors.

                                Even the developers how they know what to fix? Shouldn't it point to some file? Line? Or something?
                                You don't need to learn about everything (in winAPI); basic knowledge of the messages that wine throws is in enough / a big help. WineHQ provides lot of helpful documentation. When i started using wine and ran into my first issue -> I took a 1/2 hour to skim through the documentation, which was an excellent starting point / very helpful... Examples on debugging in Wine;

                                http://www.winehq.org/docs/winedev-g...gger#DBG-INTRO
                                all of the debug channels; http://wiki.winehq.org/DebugChannels

                                and there is a lot of other information to help in the wiki, as well. But in this case; if we thought advapi was the problem; well, advapi has it's own debugging channel. So to get more verbose out from the debugger, you'd do something like; WINEDEBUG=+advapi wine /path/to/your/app ...

                                As for hackers / developers - Wine can have quite verbose messaging / debug info + you can use other debuggers / tracers / etc. The messages do point to code; anytime wine says "fixme" or "trace" or "err" or "unimplemented", etc + "ntdll" or "advapi" or "kernel32" , etc ... you are being directed to the code / problematic part. Example; "unimplmented" + "ntdll" will tell me that a function that an app is looking for is unimplmented in ntdll in Wine - i can then go find that function in wine's source code, quite easily and have a look. you can trace calls, etc pretty easily...

                                Originally posted by deri View Post
                                I have tried several games and I have had quite poor luck with them.

                                Not accusing wine, but really hope to see some improvements on wine, drivers and linux in general.
                                Yeah, well you can't expect 100% of games to run - Wine doesn't implement 100% of Windows ...but yeah, you're preaching to the choir - I'm always looking for improvements in Wine <that's why i manage my own fork of wine, with a large set of patchwork to make wine kickass for my use> and i'm always looking for better drivers and improvements to the linux kernel <again, use some extra patches on top of the linux kernel, or backport changes to improve it for my own use>...

                                but i will say; Gnu/Linux is a whole lot better than it used to be years ago.

                                Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                                How can Wine change the error outputs put out by the Windows programs it is attempting to run?
                                You dont (try to change a windows program's output). Wine has it's own debugging infomation for functions / dlls / WinApi(s) that apps are going to be using / calling.

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