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Features Baking For KDE 4.11

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sho_ View Post
    Releasing something that requires compilation, immediately limiting the audience (and the audience who is fine with compiling is more prone to being fine with just running a beta of the whole set).
    You mean like every bit of software KDE released since years. ;-) I can't remember when ftp.kde.org hosted binary packages (RPMs or whatever). Must have been during KDE 2.x times or so.

    Originally posted by Sho_ View Post
    Putting together a new tarball for lib and widget, which involves such things as extracting the relevant translation files from the repositories (they are not kept with the source to make things easier for the translators), writing a new build system, ...
    - Making the changes you suggest to deal with the incompatible-features situation, which invites the risk of creating entirely new bugs that result in feedback noise.
    - Not to mention that testing against a workspace version it isn't destined to be used with might also turn up additional incompatibilities that were previously unknown, resulting in more feedback noise about things that don't actually need fixing.
    - Dealing with the fact that our bug tracker doesn't know a version for this out-of-band release.
    Well, I get the argument for 4.10 but considering that 4.11 is supposed to be an “LTS” release some Plasma widgets may actually get new feature releases before PW2 is ready for widespread consumption. Tweaking things like version support in BKO sounds to me like less work than to do a whole “4.12” just because some QML Plasma applets have been updated and released possibly just released via GHNS.

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    • #17
      What are gains when building KDE with c++11?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Thaodan View Post
        What are gains when building KDE with c++11?
        If the code now compiles cleanly as C++11 it means that they can start using features from c++11 language update. As far as performance or stability improvements... I can't think of any, not from just compiling it as one C++ version vs another. But it does benefit developers who are developing if C++11 has been "greenlit" by upstream.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
          Hmm? It works via fstab just fine. Here's how it looks for me:


          Note the "/export/storage on dragon". It's an NFS share. It's not mounted by default. When I click it, it gets mounted. When I right-click it and select Unmount, it gets unmounted.

          I set up the whole NFS share not even by editing /etc/fstab, but by just using YaST with these settings (sorry for the localisation, but it should be straight-forward to understand):
          Does yast allow you to do the same thing with samba shares? That would be a perfectly acceptable solution for me if I could mount and unmount the share on demand in dolphin as user. Once KDE 4.11 comes out and fixed my tearing issue (and it becomes available in opensuse's KDE:Stable repo) I'll have to give opensuse another shot if I can achieve this with samba.
          Last edited by bwat47; 06-13-2013, 10:22 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
            Well, I get the argument for 4.10 but considering that 4.11 is supposed to be an “LTS” release some Plasma widgets may actually get new feature releases before PW2 is ready for widespread consumption. Tweaking things like version support in BKO sounds to me like less work than to do a whole “4.12” just because some QML Plasma applets have been updated and released possibly just released via GHNS.
            If you're thinking about releasing PW2 widgets for testing on 4.11 before releasing PW2, I don't think that's going to be practical because of API changes in the Plasma libraries and QML components. PW2 is by necessity seeing some of the bigger API breaks in the next-gen dev cycle, because Qt swapped out QML's backend and we've been using some of the lower-level APIs this affects, and because the Plasma 1 QML components have been frozen for a while and we've got a list of changes we'd like to make there. Once the new Task Manager is ported to PW2 for example, it will no longer be practical to release a Plasma 1 version of the same code.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
              Does yast allow you to do the same thing with samba shares? That would be a perfectly acceptable solution for me if I could mount and unmount the share on demand in dolphin as user. Once KDE 4.11 comes out and fixed my tearing issue (and it becomes available in opensuse's KDE:Stable repo) I'll have to give opensuse another shot if I can achieve this with samba.
              I haven't used Samba in a while, but I don't see why it shouldn't allow you to do that. The NFS config window just helps edit /etc/fstab.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                I haven't used Samba in a while, but I don't see why it shouldn't allow you to do that. The NFS config window just helps edit /etc/fstab.
                All I know is I spent hours dicking around with fstab in various distros and kept running into all kinds of problems, such as outdated documentation (for example I ran into this issue: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=160047, at the time that workaround wasn't known so I ended up having to use a distro with an older kernel even to get it to work), and even when I could mount the share it would *only* mount/unmount as root no matter how much I tried to tweak it. Maybe I was doing something wrong, but it sure was a huge pain in the ass compared to the seamless gvfs integration other desktops have... KDE could really stand to improve in this area. Dealing with shares in dolphin is still a pain compared to nautilus or thunar.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                  All I know is I spent hours dicking around with fstab in various distros and kept running into all kinds of problems, such as outdated documentation (for example I ran into this issue: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=160047, at the time that workaround wasn't known so I ended up having to use a distro with an older kernel even to get it to work), and even when I could mount the share it would *only* mount/unmount as root no matter how much I tried to tweak it. Maybe I was doing something wrong, but it sure was a huge pain in the ass compared to the seamless gvfs integration other desktops have... KDE could really stand to improve in this area. Dealing with shares in dolphin is still a pain compared to nautilus or thunar.
                  KDE has no say in that. Dolphin already handles shares to the best of its ability (I don't see how it can be easier in other file managers, it's already as easy as it can get...). Its only the wrong mount parameters that matter here. The "users" option makes sure normal users can mount and unmount the share.

                  Why do you need SMB shares, anyway? NFS is always much easier to set up.

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                  • #24
                    What he's referring to is that gvfs' approach to accessing Windows shares is to create a temporary mount point somewhere in $HOME and ask the kernel to use it, whereas KIO uses its own plugin using the userspace Samba client libraries. The consequence is that apps launched from the file manager need to be able to understand smb:// URLs (either via KIO or on their own), whereas gvfs hands out what are effectively local filesystem paths.

                    This isn't relevant for shares configured via fstab, but it is for users who don't want to do that and use apps not using KIO.
                    Last edited by Sho_; 06-14-2013, 04:54 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                      Well, I get the argument for 4.10 but considering that 4.11 is supposed to be an “LTS” release some Plasma widgets may actually get new feature releases before PW2 is ready for widespread consumption. Tweaking things like version support in BKO sounds to me like less work than to do a whole “4.12” just because some QML Plasma applets have been updated and released possibly just released via GHNS.
                      If you're referring to making 4.x test releases of PW2 QML widgets, that won't be feasible in most cases because the QML1->2 transition does involve some API breakages (not so much on the QML side, but certainly on the C++ side hosting the QML content, if only by allowing to eliminate more of that C++ side), and there will also be API breakages in the Plasma QML components that have been frozen for a while in 4.x. It wouldn't be feasible to keep releasing the PW2 port of the new Task Manager for 4.x without substantial overhead to maintain two diverged codebases, for example.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sho_ View Post
                        This isn't relevant for shares configured via fstab, but it is for users who don't want to do that and use apps not using KIO.
                        Well yea, that's my point – just have it configured in /etc/fstab.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                          Well yea, that's my point – just have it configured in /etc/fstab.
                          And my point is that configuring shares in fstab is a huge pain in the ass compared to gnome's gvfs solution. I was not able to get dolphin to mount/unmount the shares with a smb share in my fstab because for some reason mounting a smb cifs share even when its in fstab requires root. It was not even remotely as close to as convenient as using gvfs.

                          Users shouldn't be expected to edit /etc/fstab for this kind of simple functionality. I expect to be able to mount/unmount my shares in the file manager on demand as a user, and anything else is not acceptable.

                          Dolphin/kde does not handle this "to the best of its ability", because handling it to the best of its ability would either be using gvfs or a gvfs solution to actually mount the shares on the fly so applications can actually use the files on the share. Dicking around with fstab for hours is not my definition of convenience or user friendliness.

                          I really like KDE but this is without a doubt a big issue IMO.
                          Last edited by bwat47; 06-14-2013, 05:18 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Again, I don't have much experience with SMB or gvfs, but using a GUI tool to configure fstab is really not hard. I don't see how you can mount a share without configuring anything - you still need to tell the system where the share is found and how to handle it...

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                              Again, I don't have much experience with SMB or gvfs, but using a GUI tool to configure fstab is really not hard. I don't see how you can mount a share without configuring anything - you still need to tell the system where the share is found and how to handle it...
                              You shouldn't have to be root to mount a network drive.
                              You shouldn't have to use fstab to mount a share at a friend's house/client network.
                              If you have per user personal network drives, and multi users PCs, well, it doesn't scale well.

                              Yes, it is easy to configure fstab, and is ok enough for most cases.
                              No, it is not sufficient.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by erendorn View Post
                                You shouldn't have to be root to mount a network drive.
                                You shouldn't have to use fstab to mount a share at a friend's house/client network.
                                If you have per user personal network drives, and multi users PCs, well, it doesn't scale well.

                                Yes, it is easy to configure fstab, and is ok enough for most cases.
                                No, it is not sufficient.
                                If you open a file in a smb:// share KDE downloads it for you and says the programm to open the tmp file.

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