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  • Starting Development Of GNOME Shell, Mutter 3.10

    Phoronix: Starting Development Of GNOME Shell, Mutter 3.10

    With the first GNOME 3.10 development release due this week, the first GNOME 3.10 development snapshots (v3.9.1) of the GNOME Shell desktop and Mutter compositing window manager were checked in...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTM2Mjc

  • #2
    Utter crap

    Lots of features, but the essential one is still lacking: usability. I gave gnome 3.8 a try because of the new "Classic" mode and let me tell you it really sucks. I'm really dissapointed by the fact that I'm much more productive with Windows XP (which is a 10+ years old OS) than with that crap. Thanks god we have XFCE, or I probably wouldn't be using Linux anymore.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by wargames View Post
      Lots of features, but the essential one is still lacking: usability.
      Lots of bugfixes - all of them usability related.
      Such would be on the list of the next month bugfix release of kde ....

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      • #4
        Do they have a list of features they're removing for this version?

        Like forcing a 256-color palette or something like that?

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        • #5
          this is not surprising. many linux enthusiasts do not use linux as their main machine. therefore, linux is just a part time plaything, they are not taking the desktop linux seriously. it's the same way with BSD, but there the devs never had an agenda to overtake Windows, so their usage of Mac/Windows is open and without pretension.

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          • #6
            I'd say the audience of Phoronix is far different from the audience for GNOME. People who do very technical work with their computers probably have very specific requirements of their desktop environment.

            Even still, the approach GNOME has taken has merit, and GNOME is the favorite DE of my family and friends who have taken an interest in Linux. I think the usability issues are usually overexaggerated. After all, if you started using Linux with GNOME 3, you may find the other environments inhibitive and kludgy to use.

            GNOME 3 could always use some improvement, but the core methods of interaction aren't so ill-concieved as people tend to say.

            That aside, I'm looking forward to the revival of GNOME Shell's Wayland interface, since the prior version was built and demoed far before Wayland hit 1.0.

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            • #7
              I'm a fanboy of Gnome 3, and it's looks like the 3 series is getting to the "really polished" stage now.

              Although why are they bothering with a Maps application: "We need a maps application for GNOME 3", no we don't, just go to your browser and use one of the many map and route planner sites available. Why waste time on it? Same goes for that Clocks app as well.

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              • #8
                I've been always a Gnome fanboy, but I really find myself more productive with Unity, even if I hate its dash with a passion. I find the path some linux desktops have taken is the path Apple has taken with iOS and Microsoft with Win8, focused on content consumption instead of easing workflows for content creation.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by cbamber85 View Post
                  I'm a fanboy of Gnome 3, and it's looks like the 3 series is getting to the "really polished" stage now.

                  Although why are they bothering with a Maps application: "We need a maps application for GNOME 3", no we don't, just go to your browser and use one of the many map and route planner sites available. Why waste time on it? Same goes for that Clocks app as well.
                  Keep in mind, Gnome devs have specifically said they want to target the mobile and tablet market.Therefore they need all the "Same" things as competitors. They need a clock app (read: alarm) they need a maps app, they need a radio app and whatever else Android and iOS ship with.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                    Keep in mind, Gnome devs have specifically said they want to target the mobile and tablet market.
                    Gnome2 fanboys and other desktop enthusiasts should look at enlightenment:
                    Yesterday I tried the X11:enlightenment repository from openSUSE. Really astonishing ...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wargames View Post
                      Lots of features, but the essential one is still lacking: usability. I gave gnome 3.8 a try because of the new "Classic" mode and let me tell you it really sucks. I'm really dissapointed by the fact that I'm much more productive with Windows XP (which is a 10+ years old OS) than with that crap. Thanks god we have XFCE, or I probably wouldn't be using Linux anymore.
                      This is a really sad thing. The Gnome people really don't test their stuff. They fiat their ideas and that's that (unless their is enough complaint), but they just don't do enough testing.
                      We really miss the work of Sun from early on in the gnome 2 cycle that actually performed tests and from that creating a HIG.
                      The problem isn't one of money but of interest and expertise.
                      User testing is a really tricky thing, but it can be invaluable, especially when you are doing things like gnome has been doing, but I don't think the project leads would be happy with the idea of the fate of their vision being in the hands of the dirty, dirty common man

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by liam View Post
                        This is a really sad thing. The Gnome people really don't test their stuff. They fiat their ideas and that's that (unless their is enough complaint), but they just don't do enough testing.
                        We really miss the work of Sun from early on in the gnome 2 cycle that actually performed tests and from that creating a HIG.
                        The problem isn't one of money but of interest and expertise.
                        So... which of the other Linux DE's regularly perform usability testing (which I assume is what you meant by the slighlty ambiguous "user testing")?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kigurai View Post
                          So... which of the other Linux DE's regularly perform usability testing (which I assume is what you meant by the slighlty ambiguous "user testing")?
                          None to my knowledge, but KDE has at least one prominent HCI person, so she may do things I'm not aware of (I don't follow KDE that closely).
                          The difference is that there are/were people who wanted to do this testing on gnome.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by liam View Post
                            None to my knowledge, but KDE has at least one prominent HCI person, so she may do things I'm not aware of (I don't follow KDE that closely).
                            The difference is that there are/were people who wanted to do this testing on gnome.
                            It was mostly Sun that wanted to do it but they are not there anymore and Oracle has pulled off funding. Novell has stopped funding Evolution and UI studies as well. Red Hat is shouldering most of the cost of GNOME development along with the rest of the volunteer community and I don't think the broader community is focused on usability studies.

                            Canonical did some studies with Unity but I am not sure it has helped with adoption.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
                              It was mostly Sun that wanted to do it but they are not there anymore and Oracle has pulled off funding. Novell has stopped funding Evolution and UI studies as well. Red Hat is shouldering most of the cost of GNOME development along with the rest of the volunteer community and I don't think the broader community is focused on usability studies.

                              Canonical did some studies with Unity but I am not sure it has helped with adoption.
                              Calum seemed to limit his involvement with Gnome some time after 3.0. I don't know what, if anything, happened, but he seems to point people to the designers when it comes to usability (http://list-archives.org/2012/12/01/...n/f/5351379188).
                              However, he is not who I was speaking of, and I won't mention who it was. I don't think it was something that was "top secret" (i.e., you can google for it), but the gnome community has the grim tendency to form cliques.
                              Usability isn't about adoption, but about ease of use. Gnome had its 2.0 hig backed by research and experts (i.e., not simply coders who read a few books and decided they were experts), and it was, I think, quite successful. Whether it was b/c of the hig I can't say.
                              BTW, I think you realise that your final comment is a red herring, but I decided to respond to it regardless

                              Originally posted by Honton View Post
                              That is true. I never understood the idea of bad mouthing the few enterprises left doing desktop development. Im sure there is an explanation though. Any effort by Gnome or Red Hat is usually disliked by quite a few people. I dont get it.
                              I've noticed that as well. While I'm not certain, I think it is at least partly due to the strong anti-corporation sentiment that folks like Stallman seem to have. They don't seem to understand that corporations are made of people, and that just b/c profit is their raison d'etre that doesn't mean that the people in the company can't steer things in directions that benefit others as well. RH understands that communities are a hugely important source of not just testing, but also source improvements, boosters, and future employees.
                              Last edited by liam; 05-04-2013, 04:45 AM.

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