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  • #31
    Lightworks in unsuited for my needs, where open source is used for security reasons

    I have been using Kdenlive since 2007. I have to handle video from activist events where raw clips are very sensitive and must be stored under heavy-duty encryption. As a result, I cannot allow any closed-source binary that is in contact with the external network to be in any pathway traveled by these files, nor by the boot-time encryption password. I don't even use proprietary video drivers these days, though they could be tested by running Wireshark with and without them to verify that they do not go online with any hidden activity. A video editor that requires a connection to the Internet and is a closed binary (or just beyond my own understanding!) is not safe for this kind of specialized work. Just to test Lightworks I would have to put it on a dedicated drive with a dedicated copy of my OS and not encrypted. I would also have to create safe raw files for testing, and not with my AVCHD camera or Lightworks would lose the ability to read them after the 7 day "pro" trial period expired.

    I see the issue with how Lightworks is distributed as a market segmentation issue. OK, CBS, CNN et all would fear they cannot get away with using open source ffmpeg/avconv to handle formats encumbered in the US and Japan by software patents. That means they CAN'T use Kdenlive, which is the video editor I am familiar with and for that reason compare all others against. On the other hand, doing unpaid video work, I would not consider using pay software when free and open source versions are available(no matter how buggy, I'd rather patch and workaround than pay), and certainly would not allow a program connected to the Internet to access my raw and unchecked video clips. The free version of Lightworks can't read AVCHD, which small 1080p cameras produce. which means I can't use it even if a later open source release strips out the activation requirement and security issue.

    All this means Lightworks in inappropriate for non-monetized video made from security-sensitive clips, and Kdenlive is and will remain inappropriate for high-dollar commercial video in the few countries where MPEG-LA can play their patent games, at least until those patents expire and no new patented codecs arise. They are two different products, written by two different kinds of authors, for two different kinds of users. I was starting to sweat that if too many people abandoned Kdenlive, I would not be able to keep using it myself unless I was able to learn enough about the source code to mantain it myself, which would be a huge undertaking. I've already had to do that with the old Ubuntustudio GTK theme, and that is work enough when new versions of GTK break something.

    My main worry was that Lightworks would pull people away from Kdenlive without really offering the same functionality in a free and offline version, but my guess is the separation between users of open-source ffmpeg/avconv and paid "legal" codecs will forcibly separate these userbases until H264 dies online and the last AVCHD camera dies of electromigration, or until the codec patents expire, whichever comes first. I would like to see Kdenlive pick up Shotcut's work in making openGL playback really work, and that direct shader language GPU compute, both of which are not in the MLT backend that Shotcut and Kdenlive both use. If that gets fully debugged, and Kdenlive gains the ability to play back a timeline full of night-camera color correction in full real time, that will be all I will ever need. GPU render would be nice, but some say only the Mercury engine, using the GPU for everything, can avoid giving back the gains in system ram/video ram memory transfers.

    For that matter, I ran an experiment last year benchmarking an nvidia GTS450 with the blob (blacklisted against encryption password entries while X was running!) against AMD bulldozer FX-8150 overclocked to 4.5 GHX, using Blender from PPA on the "cycles" rendering engine. That uses openCL, and at that time would detect and use that GPU if asked. Only thing was, that FX-8150 beat the NvidiaGTS450 by a substantial margin, 20% at least, in identical openCL Cycles render tests of that huge auto dealer floor raytraced image. I now use an AMD HD6750 with Mesa (more trustworthy for my purpose), giving 60-70% of theoretical openGL performance.

    On this kind of system, I wonder if Lightworks would be able to use the Mesa driver, and if so, would using it be enough to outrun the 8-core CPU for rendering anyway? If not, than Kdenlive needs only to get effects to play back in real time to be a "finished" video editor so far as I am concerned. Don't like the theme? Think it looks "unprofessional?" You can change it. I theme it to match my old-style "Ubuntustudio-legacy" GTK theme. I've got a screnshot of Lightworks running, I could probably make Kdenlive look like it if I had any reason to do so,.

    Comment


    • #32
      Luke, have you tested OpenGL play back in Kdenlive? (You need to enable it in settings) If you have, please share what problems you see.

      Originally posted by ninez View Post
      Who would have thought -an app called KDEnlive, integrates into KDE well...omfg..lmfao (at you).
      No reason for that tone. I may have misread you, I got the impression you thought lightworks looked more professional from the esthetic side. In any case, KDE integration is nothing to sneeze at as it enables colour profiles for the user interface. Most professional editors seem to like having their favourtite dark theme when doing colour correction, so it actually is relevant.
      And Lightwork's layout - isn't a subjective experience. it is WAY more organized than Kdenlive - being able to save all of my workspaces layouts is awesome.
      You can configure the layout in kdenlive to your hearts content, and yes you can save multiple layouts. Qt is top notch, and kdenlive takes good advantage of it. I have no idea where you get this out-burst from. Yes, I (and many others) find kdenlive intuitive. It is also quite stable these days, when was the last time you tested it?
      Out of curiousity - are you / have you run Lightworks, on your machine? (just curious, based on your response)...
      No, I haven't, and by the look of it so far I will not spend the time doing it. I may have a look at some youtube clips to get a feeling for it though. Give me a ppa, and I will test it. Registering for a product that was promised as open source is out of the question for me.
      -> hard pressed, or *lazy and don't care?* (it's the latter). that's exactly why i told you to *go look for yourself*... but i should note: even on Kdenlive's website, it mentions this:

      where as EditShare mentions this;
      so, editshare is again lying, while kdenlive is being modest? Not sure exactly what you want to prove. Fact is, kdenlive takes just about any format you can throw at it, have a look at first point under Troubleshooting:http://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Man...ommon_Problems
      However, I have experienced that some formats can cause instabilities (which may be related to ffmpeg or libav), a simple solution is to convert everything to lossless matroska before editing, gives you a stable experience also on pesky formats.
      Do you care to explain why NOBODY is using Kdenlive professionally???
      Please do not drop to this level of discussion. I know several people use kdenlive professionally. The article I linked to you above, this one: http://opensource.com/life/11/11/introduction-kdenlive is written by one professional editor.
      - by your logic shouldn't almost everyone be using Kdenlive?
      No, kdenlive is still not at version 1.0, and was no competition to professional tools a couple of years ago. A lot has happened the last years though, so today I believe a number of professional editors can use kdenlive for their needs.
      ...And the multi-camera stuff was one example, fyi. I don't feel like compiling Kdenlive
      Well one of many examples where you obviously are not up to speed with current state of kdenlive. Not saying you will like kdenlive better than lightworks mind you, so no reason to go overboard with ad-hominems over my comment. If you feel like bashing kdenlive with some up-to-date knowledge, you certainly do not need to compile anything. Install latest ubuntu or fedora does the trick, for both distributions you will also find packages snapshots right from the press if you look for it (hint: https://launchpad.net/~sunab/+archive/kdenlive-release )
      It's also funny how you go on about how Kdenlive is stacking up against the proprietary solutions, yet i don't see any integration / interoperability between Kdenlive and (film/broadcasting) industry standards, such as storage solutions, nor do i see much interoperability between other NLVEs... Does Kdenlive offer 'project sharing' at the level that Lightworks does??
      That is indeed missing, but I would be surprised if it is still missing in a years time. In any case, there is a python script available to convert kdenlive project to EDL (how well it works I don't know):
      http://www.kdenlive.org/resources
      (look at kdenparse link)
      Development is slow, it's unpolished (especially, if NOT running KDE) and it doesn't stack up against professional solutions.
      Please stop spouting this nonsense. It is simply not true. If you like alternatives better that is fine, but bashing open projects with such inaccuracy is very bad manners. Development is arguably fast, and on a number of accounts it arguable competes well with professional solutions.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Del_ View Post
        No reason for that tone. I may have misread you, I got the impression you thought lightworks looked more professional from the esthetic side. In any case, KDE integration is nothing to sneeze at as it enables colour profiles for the user interface. Most professional editors seem to like having their favourtite dark theme when doing colour correction, so it actually is relevant.
        no, dude - that was hilarious and needed to be pointed out....lol. funny stuff. ...and it is not relevant to Lightworks (kde integration), since that is a complete non-issue.

        Originally posted by Del_ View Post
        You can configure the layout in kdenlive to your hearts content, and yes you can save multiple layouts. Qt is top notch, and kdenlive takes good advantage of it. I have no idea where you get this out-burst from. Yes, I (and many others) find kdenlive intuitive. It is also quite stable these days, when was the last time you tested it?
        on and off, right up until Lightworks Alpha started. So my info is not _that_ out of date. Configuring Kdenlive layout - is now where near on par with that of Lightworks... honestly, you haven't even used both applications - so your input doesn't really mean anything.

        Originally posted by Del_ View Post
        No, I haven't, and by the look of it so far I will not spend the time doing it. I may have a look at some youtube clips to get a feeling for it though. Give me a ppa, and I will test it. Registering for a product that was promised as open source is out of the question for me.
        so, editshare is again lying, while kdenlive is being modest? Not sure exactly what you want to prove. Fact is, kdenlive takes just about any format you can throw at it, have a look at first point under Troubleshooting:http://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Man...ommon_Problems
        However, I have experienced that some formats can cause instabilities (which may be related to ffmpeg or libav), a simple solution is to convert everything to lossless matroska before editing, gives you a stable experience also on pesky formats.
        no one promised you that Lightworks was going to be FOSS on it's alpha/beta release - that is a bunch of sensationalized BS. - you may have thought that based on limited info and hearsay, but NO you weren't promised anything.... They didn't lie to you, they are working towards having their codebase be open-source - there is a big difference... i find it HILARIOUS though, the sense of entitlement that people like yourself have, whining like a little baby because the world did not give you instantly what you wanted...it's pathetic.

        (regarding formats) so basically, i am to jump through extra hoops just to import my data, because in kdenlive because i may suffer instabilities otherwise (with certain formats).... Wow, what a great feature (and you said Kdenlive is stable - dude, that's not stability - that's working around *instability* - i don't have those hassles in lightworks.

        Originally posted by Del_ View Post
        Please do not drop to this level of discussion. I know several people use kdenlive professionally. The article I linked to you above, this one: http://opensource.com/life/11/11/introduction-kdenlive is written by one professional editor.
        No, kdenlive is still not at version 1.0, and was no competition to professional tools a couple of years ago. A lot has happened the last years though, so today I believe a number of professional editors can use kdenlive for their needs.
        Correction; ALMOST no one uses Kdenlive professionally. and again, i have used kdenlive in the last year - this isn't a case of having not used it for 3-4 yrs... but i have to wonder / am not sure i am convinced by your link -> did you bother to go to his youtube channel??? 1st. you will be greeted by the voice of a teenaged boy, then Blender _only_ tutorial videos. He also does not link to the studio he supposedly works at in that article. ~ which to me, seems a bit strange (ie: not credible) on top of the fact, he is clearly very young and describes himself, like so;

        Originally posted by Seth from Article
        Seth Kenlon is an independent multimedia artist, free culture advocate, and UNIX geek. He is one of the maintainers of the Slackware-based multimedia production project, http://slackermedia.info
        Are you positive this guy is using Kdenlive in his professional gigs / for pay...because i'm not really.

        Originally posted by Del_ View Post
        Well one of many examples where you obviously are not up to speed with current state of kdenlive. Not saying you will like kdenlive better than lightworks mind you, so no reason to go overboard with ad-hominems over my comment. If you feel like bashing kdenlive with some up-to-date knowledge, you certainly do not need to compile anything. Install latest ubuntu or fedora does the trick, for both distributions you will also find packages snapshots right from the press if you look for it (hint: https://launchpad.net/~sunab/+archive/kdenlive-release )
        I've used it fairly recently. but you on the other hand have *NEVER* used lightworks -> yet somehow have convinced yourself that you know everything about it, and can even compare Kdenlive and it, fairly / unbiased. ~ what a buch of BS, straight up! ...but you're even worse than that - by having the sense of entitlement and expectations that you do, from a company who never promised you a god damn thing... ..and No, i will not like Kdenlive better - hence why i uninstalled it after getting Lightworks (it was a no brainer). The only (REAL!) choices were sticking with my slightly older version of Final Cut on my Mac (which i was already using and like better than newer version of FCP) or Lightworks on Linux...

        lol -> You _honestly_ think installing Ubuntu or Fedora vs. Compiling Kdenlive is easier??? dude, i can download from git / compile and install with *one command*.... you are talking CRAZY TALK

        Originally posted by Del_ View Post
        That is indeed missing, but I would be surprised if it is still missing in a years time. In any case, there is a python script available to convert kdenlive project to EDL (how well it works I don't know):
        http://www.kdenlive.org/resources
        (look at kdenparse link)
        So Kdenlive is more pro-grade in your opinion, and yet! -> i have to not only do i have convert all media to a format that won't cause instability in Kdenlive/ffmpeg, but now you're saying i also have to workaround features that aren't even on the horizon, afaict...

        Kdenlive < Lightworks. end of story....

        Originally posted by Del_ View Post
        Please stop spouting this nonsense. It is simply not true. If you like alternatives better that is fine, but bashing open projects with such inaccuracy is very bad manners. Development is arguably fast, and on a number of accounts it arguable competes well with professional solutions.
        Except that it IS simply true; A) Kdenlive is what ~11 years old (?) with no 1.0 release (that's fast development?!?!), it's arguably stable or unstable (depending on who you talk to and that you have taken additional steps to convert all media/clips to workaround it's instabilities), feature incomplete, lack of polish, etc... You can 'argue' that it competes well with professional solutions all that you like, but even by your own wording you too are not including Kdenlive as a 'professional solution' ~ freudian slip of the tongue?
        Last edited by ninez; 05-01-2013, 07:57 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          I like how people climb on top of binary paid bullshit and start throwing shoes at floss alternatives...

          Opensourcing lightworks is BLUFF. Its just a another proprietary lier. AMD example should have taught you something - they went so far and rewrote the open driver from scratch.
          Even if code drop happens, it will be just unrelevant cut from somewhere, that they "are allowed to" release.

          KDEnlive and various open editors are not supporting codecs, because they don't have nor want to deal with license issues. They use either gstreamer or dynamically bind themself to ffmpeg and likes.
          In order to claim codec support, one should pay license fees per copy. And this is only possible if the software is commercial (paid per copy).
          This aspect doesn't make opensource software any less professional. Professional means it works for production, nothing more.

          Ninez, weren't you compiling kernel recently for less latency? Well, you can forget that customization level with Lightworks, its only possible with KDEnlive or same.

          I'd better donate twice to KDEnlive than to buy this, I learned from past that investing in closed source production software just leads to wasted money. The project that controls how often can you use it, depending on amount you paid, is not my piece of cake. Even if KDEnlive fails, its codebase will still be able for restart or reuse in similar projects.

          I mean, piece by piece we are responsible for what software we get. Personally, I don't want to be part of opencore, drm, closed source scheme. Up to you to decide.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by brosis View Post
            I like how people climb on top of binary paid bullshit and start throwing shoes at floss alternatives..

            Opensourcing lightworks is BLUFF. Its just a another proprietary lier. AMD example should have taught you something - they went so far and rewrote the open driver from scratch.
            Even if code drop happens, it will be just unrelevant cut from somewhere, that they "are allowed to" release.
            I like how FOSStards make up any excuse as to why their software is so much better, when it _obviously_ is inferior in these kinds of cases. I also find it funny when FOSStards crap all over companies who are actually trying to move to the platform (which is a positive thing) - bringing tools which do not exist (in the same quality), for users who may actually want to use a Linux Desktop but can't since the tools they need, may not even exist. - thus, they don't use linux and/or have to use multiple machines and/or dual boot... these same (foos)tards cry over expectations they have, when no one even promised them anything to begin with....Kdenlive may have potential - but it is years and years away from being a viable solution for people used to a higher standard. As far as, what code they release - we don't have that information, but i think they will end up pushing the majority of their code - they probably just won't be able to get around certain things - which they may not own the IP for. (which is understandable and acceptable, imo).

            but time will tell, on that.

            Originally posted by brosis View Post
            KDEnlive and various open editors are not supporting codecs, because they don't have nor want to deal with license issues. They use either gstreamer or dynamically bind themself to ffmpeg and likes.
            In order to claim codec support, one should pay license fees per copy. And this is only possible if the software is commercial (paid per copy).
            This aspect doesn't make opensource software any less professional. Professional means it works for production, nothing more.
            Professional is NOT analogous to production. Production (in software) generally entails being stable, usable and production ready. Professional has to do with being top-notch, high-quality, (high)standards, etc and usually applies to one's occupation/income... they are two different things.... You can have production software that is 'ameteur' in nature. (ie: Kdenlive is one such example).

            Originally posted by brosis View Post
            Ninez, weren't you compiling kernel recently for less latency? Well, you can forget that customization level with Lightworks, its only possible with KDEnlive or same.
            lol. I compile kernels several times every month, since i maintain a linux kernel/packages - that isn't even relevant (at all). Lightworks offers lots of customization, it's pretty much a Desktop environment in its' own right and i have a ton of control of my workspaces, the layout of widgets on each workspace, my workflow, etc, etc, etc. (thank you very much). I love how you're trying to spread FUD though ~ very funny.

            Originally posted by brosis View Post
            I'd better donate twice to KDEnlive than to buy this, I learned from past that investing in closed source production software just leads to wasted money. The project that controls how often can you use it, depending on amount you paid, is not my piece of cake. Even if KDEnlive fails, its codebase will still be able for restart or reuse in similar projects.
            Which is your right to decide. You shouldn't use software that you don't like. But i don't mind paying a _very_ small amount of money (so small it's a non-issue) for apps that are good - it's not a big deal to me. You also are blaming EditShare for charging you for using codecs they also have to license - what do you expect they should pay for them, so that you can have everything for free???? (did you even consider this simple FACT).

            I think they actually made a reasonable compromise; You pay for what you want/need (that they *also* have to pay for too) and the rest is free. You think they won't release source code - but what if they do??? -> WOW, what a terrible company - they've taken 20+ years of their hardwork and innovations and are providing it for nearly free, only charging for things that they can't distribute for free... Evil i tell you, EVIL!! lololol.

            Originally posted by brosis View Post
            I mean, piece by piece we are responsible for what software we get. Personally, I don't want to be part of opencore, drm, closed source scheme. Up to you to decide.
            I already decided a very long time ago - software isn't about politics for me, i use whatever tools are best for the job. Source code is handy, but sometimes it's more important to get things done, rather than screwing around. (especially, when some of my closed-apps make work possible and/or easier). Sometimes, it's better to take the pragmatic approach, since i do not believe (as you seem to) that everything is so cut-and-dry. There have been many closed-software/apps that has benefited Linux, as a whole. So while i lean towards FOSS wherever i can / it's worth doing that, then i do - but I still have Nvidia blob (over nouveau), VMware Workstation (over any other virtualization methods), Lightworks (over FOSS alternatives) to name a few examples ~ but i use these because using the open-alternatives just doesn't cut the mustard, for some stuff.
            Last edited by ninez; 05-01-2013, 09:40 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ninez View Post
              I like how FOSStards make up any excuse as to why their software is so much better, when it _obviously_ is inferior in these kinds of cases. I also find it funny when FOSStards crap all over companies who are actually trying to move to the platform (which is a positive thing) - bringing tools which do not exist (in the same quality), who may actually want to use a Linux Desktop but can't since the tools they need, may not even exist. these same tards cry over expectations they have, when no one even promised them anything to begin with....Kdenlive may have potential - but it is years and years away from being a viable solution for people used to a higher standard. As far as, what code they release - we don't have that information, but i think they will end up pushing the majority of their code - they probably just won't be able to get around certain things - which they may not own the IP for. (which is understandable and acceptable, imo).
              So you call me FOSStard, eh? Then we have nothing to discuss, because you use this platform ONLY because it fits your needs and you are okay to accept crap. Next day windows performs better, I see your ass installing it. Even talking to you is failed investment, because your relate to proprietary in exact same matter. For me Openshot fits the spot, it isn't proprietary so obviously your trolling is pointless. Have fun with your "higher standard", and (I borrow this, courtesy of Torvalds) "Fuck you".

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ninez View Post
                no, dude - that was hilarious and needed to be pointed out....lol. funny stuff. ...and it is not relevant to Lightworks (kde integration), since that is a complete non-issue.
                For KDE users it is, and I am one. I suggest you think over things a bit if you actually want more users to go to lightworks. Your line of reasoning may actually scare people away.
                Wow, what a great feature (and you said Kdenlive is stable - dude, that's not stability - that's working around *instability* - i don't have those hassles in lightworks.
                It is called working around crappy formats, formats professionals typically stay away from. I was trying to help you in case that was holding you back from using kdenlive. Instability has been the number one issue with kdenlive a couple of years back.
                Are you positive this guy is using Kdenlive in his professional gigs / for pay...because i'm not really.
                Let me put it this way, from his presentation he is a lot more trustworthy than editshare. At best they were misleading the foss world, your repeated denial does not change facts. Are you affiliated with them in any way?
                lol -> You _honestly_ think installing Ubuntu or Fedora vs. Compiling Kdenlive is easier??? dude, i can download from git / compile and install with *one command*.... you are talking CRAZY TALK
                You are making it hard for me to be polite. Either you are lying or you have no clue. Compiling KDE apps is nowhere close to that easy, they typically have dependencies. In the case of Kdenlive you need updated mlt and frei0r also built from source, and you need all the development packages to compile against. Moreover, if you install out-of-tree, you will need configure environment variables. It is a hassle compared to the apt-add-repository, apt-update, apt-get install drill.
                So Kdenlive is more pro-grade in your opinion
                I don't believe I said that, but for me, yes (although I am not a professional editor). For you I actually don't care. What I do care about is your public bashing of kdenlive based on false statements.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by brosis View Post
                  So you call me FOSStard, eh? Then we have nothing to discuss, because you use this platform ONLY because it fits your needs and you are okay to accept crap. Next day windows performs better, I see your ass installing it. Even talking to you is failed investment, because your relate to proprietary in exact same matter. For me Openshot fits the spot, it isn't proprietary so obviously your trolling is pointless. Have fun with your "higher standard", and (I borrow this, courtesy of Torvalds) "Fuck you".
                  You *are* a FOSStard - i didn't just 'call you' one. ...your quoting Linus, crying over a closed-software, and are upset because someone uses some closed-source applications - fsck ya, you're a FOSStard, through and through. I use Linux because it is flexible, powerful, (yes) it swerves my needs and because i like *nix systems (to which i already had experience with before using linux). NOT for ideological/politically motivated reasons, specifically.

                  Windows? Dude, i haven't had Windows installed on ANY of my own hardware for well over 10 years (probably closer to 15). It's great to see that you 'have me figured out' so well... lol. (you fucking FOSSTARD moron). I've also been using Linux for over a decade. I'm also a (long time) Mac user, but probably won't buy another after this one -> because of closed apps like VMware and Lightworks will allow me to drop MacOSX. So yeah, you're black and white approach to software to be short-sided and laughable.

                  and you don't get to represent my position, asshole - I *know* that FOSS is going to win in the long run (and largely already has!), so yes, a pragmatic approach is better than your moronic FOSStard mentality; that is allowing room for both and using whatever works best. (this also allows users (like myslef) and/or potential migrate'rs to linux do the same).

                  ...and as i said - use whatever software you like, if Openshot fits your needs - *great*. (that just means it's the tool for you!). That in fact just validates my point on using whatever tools (regardless of closed vs. open) that best fits the job. But apparently, you're too thick in the skull to get that... but Openshot does not fit mine, so why the fuck should i use it? -> so i can be a FOSStard like you?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                    What part of FREEWARE do you not understand? Lightworks isn't F/OSS it's no different then TeamFortress2 you get it for free, you have to agree to the terms of Steam and you don't get the source to the game. Same goes for Avast! antivirus for Linux, it's free, requires free regestration, you don't get the source, but it is free and very useful if you need to sanitize things for Windows boxes or to clean windows boxes since the F/OSS ClamAV isn't all that great so you should hit it with both.

                    So, go fuck yourself.
                    Avast for linux has false positives and is subpar. I suggest using Windows Defender Offline to clean out viruses. It's free and is based on winpe, so you don't have to deal with driver issues and whatnot.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Del_ View Post
                      For KDE users it is, and I am one. I suggest you think over things a bit if you actually want more users to go to lightworks. Your line of reasoning may actually scare people away.
                      Not at all. Lighworks has it's own toolkit and is an integrated environment - it is the same regardless of DE or platform. It's very consistent. And really i was just pointing that KDE is _just_ one DE.

                      Originally posted by Del_ View Post
                      It is called working around crappy formats, formats professionals typically stay away from. I was trying to help you in case that was holding you back from using kdenlive. Instability has been the number one issue with kdenlive a couple of years back.
                      Let me put it this way, from his presentation he is a lot more trustworthy than editshare. At best they were misleading the foss world, your repeated denial does not change facts. Are you affiliated with them in any way?
                      nope, not affiliated at all. How are they misleading the foss world? -> They announced they had plans of opening source code prematurely. Most likely their motivation isn't the 'foss world' but instead the Film industry (whom like to modify their tools). They've made it clear on their roadmap that source code will be released after porting. ~ porting took longer than probably initially expected (no surprise there)....and on what basis can you conclude your source is more reliable? you can't, you don't know enough about either party to make such a conclusion...

                      Originally posted by Del_ View Post
                      You are making it hard for me to be polite. Either you are lying or you have no clue. Compiling KDE apps is nowhere close to that easy, they typically have dependencies. In the case of Kdenlive you need updated mlt and frei0r also built from source, and you need all the development packages to compile against. Moreover, if you install out-of-tree, you will need configure environment variables. It is a hassle compared to the apt-add-repository, apt-update, apt-get install drill.
                      Or maybe you just don't know what fsck your talking about. So i have no clue and am i liar - even though package management on my chosen distro allows just that??? (Archlinux). So let me put this to rest - *you don't have a fscking clue*, period. Compiling any application is *that easy*. ~ you do know Ubuntu is just one distro, right? Some operating systems offer tools to make installing apps from source only require a command or two - ever heard of Gentoo, Freebsd, MacOSX, Archlinux (to name a few)... some of them also have these cool feature that allows them to pull in dependencies and compile them from source too.

                      next time, you are going to tell someone they are either a liar or have no clue - you best make sure that it isn't in fact *YOU* who is the moron. just a bit of advice..

                      Originally posted by Del_ View Post
                      I don't believe I said that, but for me, yes (although I am not a professional editor). For you I actually don't care. What I do care about is your public bashing of kdenlive based on false statements.
                      as opposed to what - your public bashing of EditShare???

                      what a hypocrite you are!
                      Last edited by ninez; 05-01-2013, 10:35 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ninez View Post
                        How are they misleading the foss world? -> They announced they had plans of opening source code prematurely.
                        Really? Of course you conveniently fail to add that they only support half the relevant import formats in kdenlive without the pro version. Exactly when do you think they will open source the pro version?
                        Or maybe you just don't know what fsck your talking about. So i have no clue and am i liar - even though package management on my chosen distro allows just that??? (Archlinux).
                        OK, so liar it is. Next time say you are using pacman, instead of a one-liner git mumbo-jumbo. Communication is a skill, try to acquire it.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Yes, I have tested OpenGL playback many times, using Kdenlive from Sunab PPA

                          [QUOTE=Del_;328644]Luke, have you tested OpenGL play back in Kdenlive? (You need to enable it in settings) If you have, please share what problems you see.

                          OpenGL playback has ALWAYS given choppy or laggy playback of my files, I've tested it with every card and driver I've used. They are the streams from AVCHD clips put into .flv (!) containers in avconv so I can avoid the seek issues AVCHD is known for. The best performance I ever saw in handling playback was with Nouveau on a GTS450 using XV. Running the blob the performance sucked on both XV and on Opengl, with openGL being best and lagging only on transitions-but WORSE than any open driver/card on XV.

                          Now using a Radeon 6750 on the open source mesa/radeon driver with all the performance optimizations (disable sync to vblank, etc). CPU is AMD "bulldozer" FX 8120 at 4.4GHZ (the 8150 was destroyed by a VRAM failure).

                          Power management on the video card is static by powerplayswitcher.py . All the way up or halfway up, no difference in Kdenlive, almost as good all the way down. Sometimes transitions, especially dissolves, are smooth, but other times, and most often with clock wipes, they lag enough to force choppy sound. Using ALSA on the sound card directly, Pulseaudio is removed because it creates issues with playback of AVCHD files or the files made from them in every video player.

                          Yet, shotcut can open that exact same .kdenlive file I save, play it back using MLT and with OpenGL enabled, butter smooth end to end even on a Phenom II X4 at 3.8GHX with a Radeon 5570 on a copy of the same OS. I would so love to see those projects merge or at least have a good old
                          fashioned one-night stand to mix that good DNA between the two. I now get so few kdenlive crashes, and such good crash recovery I would then see
                          little to ask for for what I do with video from any other editor. I've been with Kdenlive since the incredibly buggy KDE 3.5 versions back in 2007-2008, not ONCE found anything better, only things good for special tasks. Used to use Cinelerra to interpolate 20FPS video to 30, but it did a poor job, just dissolving between frames. Shotcut does a HELL of a good job of that, though "jelly roll" on 720P action shooting was also enough to junk that camera.

                          In answer to another question I have not run Lightworks as I cannot trust that sort of binary on my live system full of "classified" raw clips, and to prepare a system from scratch on a junk disk, then bring in everything needed to run Lightworks just for testing would be a lot of work and bandwidth(no landline at home!). Anytime you are considering airgapping from the network with two machines in one case-or a VM-you are in no position to use an editor that connects to the Internet itself. Would have to shoot special "harmless" clips just to try it-and preconvert to a format the free version could read or test only over 7 days.

                          I'm not saying Lightworks is BAD, not at all. I'd sure as hell rather see pro video editors run Lightworks over Linux and gamers run Steam over Linux than see them using Windows anyday.

                          The only reason for me to test it as of now would be curiosity, though I would definately advise developers of all FOSS editors to at least check out Youtube videos of the paid ones for comparison. If an offline version you can download without an account ever comes out, I will download it, turn off networking, install it, test it with the network disconnected, and purge before reconnecting,

                          About codec licenses: yes, I use the full versions of avconv/ffmpeg, no, I don't pay a penny for patent licenses when I don't recognize the authority of any government to patent software or DNA. I shoot front-line video of militant street protests, you can guess my position on "voluntary compliance" with an unjust law I oppose and which even MPEG-LA has bailed on enforcing on noncommerical users. I never sell ads or solicit donations on my videos, I would use cheaper gear first. A public library can pay for Fluendo if they fear lawsuits, I need ffmpeg/avconv. Mint (and I think Fluendo themselves too) go so far as to state that only institutional users need ever worry about codecs.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I've tested OpenGL in Kdenlive many times

                            [QUOTE=Del_;328644]Luke, have you tested OpenGL play back in Kdenlive? (You need to enable it in settings) If you have, please share what problems you see.

                            OpenGL playback has ALWAYS given choppy or laggy playback of my files, I've tested it with every card and driver I've used. They are the streams from AVCHD clips put into .flv (!) containers in avconv so I can avoid the seek issues AVCHD is known for. The best performance I ever saw in handling playback was with Nouveau on a GTS450 using XV. Running the blob the performance sucked on both XV and on Opengl, with openGL being best and lagging only on transitions-but WORSE than any open driver/card on XV.

                            Now using a Radeon 6750 on the open source mesa/radeon driver with all the performance optimizations (disable sync to vblank, etc). CPU is AMD "bulldozer" FX 8120 at 4.4GHZ (the 8150 was destroyed by a VRAM failure).

                            Power management on the video card is static by powerplayswitcher.py . All the way up or halfway up, no difference in Kdenlive, almost as good all the way down. Sometimes transitions, especially dissolves, are smooth, but other times, and most often with clock wipes, they lag enough to force choppy sound. Using ALSA on the sound card directly, Pulseaudio is removed because it creates issues with playback of AVCHD files or the files made from them in every video player.

                            Yet, shotcut can open that exact same .kdenlive file I save, play it back using MLT and with OpenGL enabled, butter smooth end to end even on a Phenom II X4 at 3.8GHX with a Radeon 5570 on a copy of the same OS. I would so love to see those projects merge or at least have a good old
                            fashioned one-night stand to mix that good DNA between the two. I now get so few kdenlive crashes, and such good crash recovery I would then see
                            little to ask for for what I do with video from any other editor. I've been with Kdenlive since the incredibly buggy KDE 3.5 versions back in 2007-2008, not ONCE found anything better, only things good for special tasks. Used to use Cinelerra to interpolate 20FPS video to 30, but it did a poor job, just dissolving between frames. Shotcut does a HELL of a good job of that, though "jelly roll" on 720P action shooting was also enough to junk that camera.

                            In answer to another question I have not run Lightworks as I cannot trust that sort of binary on my live system full of "classified" raw clips, and to prepare a system from scratch on a junk disk, then bring in everything needed to run Lightworks just for testing would be a lot of work and bandwidth(no landline at home!). Anytime you are considering airgapping from the network with two machines in one case-or a VM-you are in no position to use an editor that connects to the Internet itself. Would have to shoot special "harmless" clips just to try it-and preconvert to a format the free version could read or test only over 7 days.

                            I'm not saying Lightworks is BAD, not at all. I'd sure as hell rather see pro video editors run Lightworks over Linux and gamers run Steam over Linux than see them using Windows anyday.

                            The only reason for me to test it as of now would be curiosity, though I would definately advise developers of all FOSS editors to at least check out Youtube videos of the paid ones for comparison. If an offline version you can download without an account ever comes out, I will download it, turn off networking, install it, test it with the network disconnected, and purge before reconnecting,

                            About codec licenses: yes, I use the full versions of avconv/ffmpeg, no, I don't pay a penny for patent licenses when I don't recognize the authority of any government to patent software or DNA. I shoot front-line video of militant street protests, you can guess my position on "voluntary compliance" with an unjust law I oppose and which even MPEG-LA has bailed on enforcing on noncommerical users. I never sell ads or solicit donations on my videos, I would use cheaper gear first. A public library can pay for Fluendo if they fear lawsuits, I need ffmpeg/avconv. Mint (and I think Fluendo themselves too) go so far as to state that only institutional users need ever worry about codecs.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Del_ View Post
                              Really? Of course you conveniently fail to add that they only support half the relevant import formats in kdenlive without the pro version. Exactly when do you think they will open source the pro version?
                              You nor I know what the future holds in terms of their plans, beyond available information. so why is it that you've already narrowed it down to some binary choice/conclusion??? ~ is this really how you evaluate everything in your life? I would probably think that isn't the case, for most people (and likely not you, either). I don't think it comes down to the two possibilities that you are prescribing here, it's possible that as things progress more codecs may be enabled / applicable to OSS version... (you know, sort of like what happened during the Alpha program where lots of codecs <now available> weren't available at all, initially.)...

                              You've jumped to your own conclusions. oh sh*t, i forgot you can see into the future. fail. :\

                              Originally posted by Del_ View Post
                              OK, so liar it is. Next time say you are using pacman, instead of a one-liner git mumbo-jumbo. Communication is a skill, try to acquire it.
                              No, not using pacman - since that is for binaries from the arch repos. I used yaourt/makepkg depending on situation.

                              I can communicate just fine. You just didn't ask me to clarify a god damn thing before you accused me of being a liar or not having a clue, then instead proceeded to make false accusations (EDIT: ironically, another simple-minded binary choice. i guess you just have a poor imagination...lolz).... -> So dummy, if you want to talk about communication skills, then go get some help for yourself. Clearly, you could use some.

                              ...and that wasn't mumbo-jumbo - i stated the difficulty of installing kdenlive from git on my machine, it's your own fault for putting your foot in your mouth. i think it's funny, personally.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Yaourt is a wrapper for pacman, didn't you know? Moreover, why the nonsense about compiling, the latest kdenlive is probably already available in stable binary package for Arch.

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