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OpenShot Switches From GTK+ To Qt

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  • #61
    Originally posted by dee. View Post
    Does Maemo ring a bell?
    It's the thing that used a heavily modified GTK version (Hildon) because normal GTK was not up to the task and after a while Nokia came to the conclusion that using Qt instead is the superior way.
    BlackBerry, Canonical, and Jolla came to exactly the same conclusion which is why all these use Qt these days in their mobile offerings and not GTK/Hildon. Even Samsung and Intel support Qt next to EFL in Tizen but not GTK/Hildon.

    GTK as it exists now is dying. Even the GTK maintainers know that which is way even shortly after GTK 3.0 came out they thought about how to fix GTK and make a 4.0 release happen. As reported recently on Phoronix they plan to replace large parts with Clutter.

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    • #62
      Gtk looks better on KDE though (since Oxygen can be used.) Qt5 looks like ass :-/

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Ancurio View Post
        You're talking about the dead phone OS, right?
        Dead or not, it did show that GTK on mobile is possible.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
          It's the thing that used a heavily modified GTK version (Hildon) because normal GTK was not up to the task and after a while Nokia came to the conclusion that using Qt instead is the superior way.
          BlackBerry, Canonical, and Jolla came to exactly the same conclusion which is why all these use Qt these days in their mobile offerings and not GTK/Hildon. Even Samsung and Intel support Qt next to EFL in Tizen but not GTK/Hildon.

          GTK as it exists now is dying. Even the GTK maintainers know that which is way even shortly after GTK 3.0 came out they thought about how to fix GTK and make a 4.0 release happen. As reported recently on Phoronix they plan to replace large parts with Clutter.
          Not everything has to be a thing on mobile/embedded though. Contrary to all the hype, we're not all going to ditch our desktop computers and do everything with 10" tablets in the future... GTK (both 2 and 3) work just fine where it counts, on desktop Linux. It's definitely good for developers (and users) to have the choice of not using Qt, monopolies are never in the best interest of anyone except the monopoly holder.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by dee. View Post
            Not everything has to be a thing on mobile/embedded though. Contrary to all the hype, we're not all going to ditch our desktop computers and do everything with 10" tablets in the future... GTK (both 2 and 3) work just fine where it counts, on desktop Linux. It's definitely good for developers (and users) to have the choice of not using Qt, monopolies are never in the best interest of anyone except the monopoly holder.
            Clinging to a technologically inferior toolkit has nothing to do with your monopoly garbage. GTK sucks these days and that's not Qt's fault only of the GTK devs. Improve GTK and application programmers will not migrate away from it. Either that or STFU.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Ericg View Post
              Those exploits are covered by: http://www.kde.org/community/whatisk...foundation.php

              Here's the short version. If Digia (not Dignia) OR whoever is the current owner of the Qt Project (This clause gets moved around with the project itself) EVER stops releasing the LGPL version of Qt in a timely manner there is a legally binding contract between them that states the most recent version of the closed source Qt program is handed over to KDE, with copyright assigned to KDE, under the BSD license. Digia's (or whoever owns Qt at the time) entire business model of SELLING Qt would immediately be destroyed because anyone could take and do anything with the latest Qt.

              The license contained loopholes. Those loopholes were spotted. Those loopholes were fixed with this agreement. End of story.
              Originally posted by ShadowBane View Post
              Despite the CLA Qt can not be closed off (Diga could try, but KDE would sink Diga's business model)
              http://www.kde.org/community/whatisk...foundation.php


              Ok, this is nice! Thanks for clearing up!
              Last edited by brosis; 04-27-2013, 10:56 AM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                Gtk looks better on KDE though (since Oxygen can be used.) Qt5 looks like ass :-/
                I guess your being sarcastic if not i can't understand your conclusion.
                GTK doesn't look good in anything except an GTK based DE, but personally i think it always looks bad but thats my taste.
                Qt looks good everywhere, but some improvements can always be done.
                I think Qt looks better in gnome then GTK does in KDE SC.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Nille_kungen View Post
                  I guess your being sarcastic if not i can't understand your conclusion.
                  GTK doesn't look good in anything except an GTK based DE, but personally i think it always looks bad but thats my taste.
                  Qt looks good everywhere, but some improvements can always be done.
                  I think Qt looks better in gnome then GTK does in KDE SC.
                  RealNC is talking about how you can't use the Oxygen theme with Qt 5 right now. Which is due to the linking of Oxygen in KDE, and it will be solved in KDE Frameworks 5.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                    Clinging to a technologically inferior toolkit has nothing to do with your monopoly garbage. GTK sucks these days and that's not Qt's fault only of the GTK devs. Improve GTK and application programmers will not migrate away from it. Either that or STFU.
                    No, you STFU. People who treat their opinions as gospel should be gathered on some kind of island where they can have their own circle-jerk.

                    Gtk works just fine, I have plenty of great GTK apps on my computer and none of them have any issues because of being GTK apps. I don't see this "technological inferiority" in practice anywhere.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                      I don't care for broken packaging. Cinnamon itself is written using Clutter. Clutter, while these days developed within the GNOME ecosystem, is a toolkit entirely separate of GTK.
                      Cinnamon includes the file manager, now. They forked Nautilus into "Nemo", which I use under Mate (albeit without desktop management). That uses GTK3.
                      It's also the file manager I like best so far (I liked the Windows 98/XP file manager and PCManFM too)

                      Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                      So? You were talking about applications, not DEs alone. And by after reading through LXDE blog posts, it looks like LXDE will never be ported to GTK3. The LXDE maintainer (PCMan) wrote that it's easier to port a GTK2 application to Qt than to port it to GTK3 and the first component has already been ported to Qt.
                      The author also mentions explicitly it should not be flamewar material.
                      Boo!
                      Leave that little piece of slim and efficient code alone. That little file manager can be used under Fluxbox or really anything too, and is like the only thing people run on a raspberry or when running an X11 server on some fat cell phone. A Qt port is just one more option and the author specifically wrote GTK and Qt are coexisting.

                      Lastly, you need GTK2 anyway to run all the stuff (firefox, gparted, filezilla, small programs and tools, the gtk graphics programs etc.) so there's no biggie if LXDE stays in GTK2 for a while. This is the desktop you can realistically run on a computer with 128MB physical RAM, afterall.

                      We're not in a hurry for GTK2 to get dumped overnight from all distros so that a shitload of software becomes incompatible, do we? I for one don't give a shit. Let's wait a decade before dumping it.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Nille_kungen View Post
                        I guess your being sarcastic if not i can't understand your conclusion.
                        GTK doesn't look good in anything except an GTK based DE, but personally i think it always looks bad but thats my taste.
                        Qt looks good everywhere, but some improvements can always be done.
                        I think Qt looks better in gnome then GTK does in KDE SC.
                        GTK looks just fine in KDE when using Oxygen:

                        (From top to bottom: Gtk2, Gtk3, native KDE.)
                        http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ezze7Ar8OQ...n-gtk-demo.png

                        Qt5 looks ugly, non-native and totally out of place. This is Qt4 (left) vs Qt5 (right):

                        http://i46.tinypic.com/j607tk.png

                        KDE5 isn't coming out for a while, so Qt5 on KDE is currently a disaster. If you're currently using Qt for an app, you better make sure it builds fine in Qt4 too, not just Qt5, if you care about supporting KDE.
                        Last edited by RealNC; 04-28-2013, 08:10 AM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                          KDE5 isn't coming out for a while, so Qt5 on KDE is currently a disaster. If you're currently using Qt for an app, you better make sure it builds fine in Qt4 too, not just Qt5, if you care about supporting KDE.
                          In the short term. It will stop being an issue after a while. The fact that it's just using a different theme for now is not the end of the world...

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by grok View Post
                            Cinnamon includes the file manager, now. They forked Nautilus into "Nemo", which I use under Mate (albeit without desktop management). That uses GTK3.
                            It's also the file manager I like best so far (I liked the Windows 98/XP file manager and PCManFM too)



                            The author also mentions explicitly it should not be flamewar material.
                            Boo!
                            Leave that little piece of slim and efficient code alone. That little file manager can be used under Fluxbox or really anything too, and is like the only thing people run on a raspberry or when running an X11 server on some fat cell phone. A Qt port is just one more option and the author specifically wrote GTK and Qt are coexisting.

                            Lastly, you need GTK2 anyway to run all the stuff (firefox, gparted, filezilla, small programs and tools, the gtk graphics programs etc.) so there's no biggie if LXDE stays in GTK2 for a while. This is the desktop you can realistically run on a computer with 128MB physical RAM, afterall.

                            We're not in a hurry for GTK2 to get dumped overnight from all distros so that a shitload of software becomes incompatible, do we? I for one don't give a shit. Let's wait a decade before dumping it.
                            Well said.

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                            • #74
                              I can hardly tell that VLC isn't running GTK, the only stuff that's only apparent is the About.. dialog with its weird tabs, and the small icons next to menu items (esp. Help and About). The File..Open dialog it gives me is a GTK one (Virtualbox does this too), apparently a GTK2 one

                              GTK2 Open file.. is superior to GTK3 Open file.., because that latter one throws you into the "Recently used" folder everytime, instead of the folder you used last time. This is the single biggest toolkit issue I have (and proof that GTK3 is shit, unless it's the Nemo file manager using it). That and micropolis (the free open source version of 1989 Sim City) uses piece Motif or some raw X11 clone of it (ew..) and makes me navigate manually from /usr/share/games/micropolis/cities to my home folder everytime.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by grok View Post
                                Cinnamon includes the file manager, now. They forked Nautilus into "Nemo", which I use under Mate (albeit without desktop management). That uses GTK3.
                                It's also the file manager I like best so far (I liked the Windows 98/XP file manager and PCManFM too)
                                Was Nautilus forked too? Gosh. Is Cinnamon a real upstream fork? i meant, did they forked gtk3 too? What a disaster.

                                I recommend you to use dolphin, a filemanager that makes your life a lot easier . Last time a i checked nautilus i found it useless, it send me to the command line all the time.

                                Originally posted by grok View Post
                                The author also mentions explicitly it should not be flamewar material.
                                Boo!
                                Leave that little piece of slim and efficient code alone. That little file manager can be used under Fluxbox or really anything too, and is like the only thing people run on a raspberry or when running an X11 server on some fat cell phone. A Qt port is just one more option and the author specifically wrote GTK and Qt are coexisting.
                                Well, i recommend you to use the Qt version since the gtk version is or is about to be deprecated as a legacy, vintage, obsolete and nostalgic version. Ask yourself why you need two version or why the developer did it in the first place.

                                Originally posted by grok View Post
                                Lastly, you need GTK2 anyway to run all the stuff (firefox, gparted, filezilla, small programs and tools, the gtk graphics programs etc.) so there's no biggie if LXDE stays in GTK2 for a while. This is the desktop you can realistically run on a computer with 128MB physical RAM, afterall.

                                We're not in a hurry for GTK2 to get dumped overnight from all distros so that a shitload of software becomes incompatible, do we? I for one don't give a shit. Let's wait a decade before dumping it.
                                Nobody is calling for dumping all your gtk apps now, that would absurd. Sadly a lot of developers made the mistake of using gtk as a toolkit for their apps, the damage is done. But i wish developers to stop using gnome and gtk3 already, there's no good reason for using those libraries.

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