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  • Mozilla & Samsung Develop "Servo" Browser Engine

    Phoronix: Mozilla & Samsung Develop "Servo" Browser Engine

    A research project between Mozilla and Samsung engineers has led to the development of Servo, a new web-browser engine designed around modern hardware and today's web-browsing needs...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTM0MjI

  • #2
    In Rust we trust

    Shouldī ve fixed slow libpango rendering issues, that make videoplayback and scroll speed on any *nix very slow, but no.

    They work with Samsungs, who proven themself to be egoistic we-donīt-care-about-floss types.
    Probably want FirefoxOS to use that engine on Samsung hardware, but they will not do it - as Google Android is more adopted and Ubuntu phone is more full-linux and open.

    Mozilla became proprietary-windows-1st-priority-loving developer-donīt-caring lying all-about-marketing egoists recently.

    Comment


    • #3
      Strange direction they are taking.
      There was the electrolysis project a while back where the idea was to have one process per tab.
      They cancelled that, too bad they did but now the layout engine Servo seems to be a new take on multiprocessing, multi-threading. (Go Thread pool approach)

      They really should take a look at responsiveness issues.

      Not sure if the new language is going to do very well. Especially when porting stuff to more than x86-64.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by plonoma View Post
        Strange direction they are taking.
        There was the electrolysis project a while back where the idea was to have one process per tab.
        They cancelled that, too bad they did but now the layout engine Servo seems to be a new take on multiprocessing, multi-threading. (Go Thread pool approach)

        They really should take a look at responsiveness issues.

        Not sure if the new language is going to do very well. Especially when porting stuff to more than x86-64.
        If you are afraid that Mozilla doesn't care about responsiveness, there is an ongoing effort for this: Project Snappy.
        Here are the developer's blog updates: http://taras.glek.net/ Try using Aurora (the alpha) and you will find that they got better.

        About Rust, I agree that this should be the way to go for a big codebase. C++ is nasty to work with, I have more respect for Java (or C#) but in this era there is a deep need to have safe constructs in the language by default. Rust does just this: gives immutability by default and many things that are great to have. I know that it means 5 years to see it alive but who cares, every research project pushes the boundaries and will give if is successful better software for every of us.

        Electrolysis is worse from my perspective than Rust: is much better to enforce the code at the language level than: if it breaks, we will fix it via sandboxing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by plonoma View Post
          Strange direction they are taking.
          There was the electrolysis project a while back where the idea was to have one process per tab.
          They cancelled that, too bad they did but now the layout engine Servo seems to be a new take on multiprocessing, multi-threading. (Go Thread pool approach)

          They really should take a look at responsiveness issues.

          Not sure if the new language is going to do very well. Especially when porting stuff to more than x86-64.

          e10s hasn't been cancelled, it's been folded into onging efforts with performance and stablity (snappy and supersnappy).
          https://wiki.mozilla.org/Performance/Snappy
          http://blog.mozilla.org/tglek/category/snappy/
          https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718121

          So, supersnappy looks like a bunch of threadpools that exist within the chrome, or independent content/js(so one pool, or constellation as they call it, per tab).
          It looks like there's only one blocker left on this, so, shouldn't be long now

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by brosis View Post
            In Rust we trust

            Shouldī ve fixed slow libpango rendering issues, that make videoplayback and scroll speed on any *nix very slow, but no.

            They work with Samsungs, who proven themself to be egoistic we-donīt-care-about-floss types.
            Probably want FirefoxOS to use that engine on Samsung hardware, but they will not do it - as Google Android is more adopted and Ubuntu phone is more full-linux and open.

            Mozilla became proprietary-windows-1st-priority-loving developer-donīt-caring lying all-about-marketing egoists recently.
            The smooth scrolling in the newly released firefox 20 is a big improvemnt over 19, and is wonderfully smooth for me in linux, smoother than any other browser I've used. I've also had no problems with video playback.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by plonoma View Post
              Not sure if the new language is going to do very well. Especially when porting stuff to more than x86-64.
              It uses LLVM, so it should be supported at least on ARM relatively easily (in addition to x86(-64)). As far as other arch's, I guess time will tell. Will probably be a while. :-/

              Comment


              • #8
                This announcement said a few things to me....

                1) Mozilla doesnt have the attitude of "We wrote gecko we're gonna use gecko!" like MS does with Trident. They're open to exploring other options and ideas, just like Opera was.

                2) They don't believe that a single engine for browsers is good-- otherwise they would've picked WebKit

                3) They're looking to test and push boundaries, hence Rust and not some other language.

                4) I love Mozilla even more than i used to I'm glad to see that they are still experimenting and trying new things. If nothing else, if Servo falls through, they can always go back to Gecko, the code doesnt disappear just because its not being used, and the web browser world got a bit of research and development for future endeavors.

                I wish Mozilla all the best, and I'm looking forward to testing this in the future.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by brosis View Post
                  In Rust we trust

                  Shouldī ve fixed slow libpango rendering issues, that make videoplayback and scroll speed on any *nix very slow, but no.

                  They work with Samsungs, who proven themself to be egoistic we-donīt-care-about-floss types.
                  Probably want FirefoxOS to use that engine on Samsung hardware, but they will not do it - as Google Android is more adopted and Ubuntu phone is more full-linux and open.

                  Mozilla became proprietary-windows-1st-priority-loving developer-donīt-caring lying all-about-marketing egoists recently.
                  It's a port to Android on ARM that they're announcing.
                  And it's designed to use GLUT for rendering, if I understand the notes right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                    This announcement said a few things to me....

                    1) Mozilla doesnt have the attitude of "We wrote gecko we're gonna use gecko!" like MS does with Trident. They're open to exploring other options and ideas, just like Opera was.

                    2) They don't believe that a single engine for browsers is good-- otherwise they would've picked WebKit

                    3) They're looking to test and push boundaries, hence Rust and not some other language.

                    4) I love Mozilla even more than i used to I'm glad to see that they are still experimenting and trying new things. If nothing else, if Servo falls through, they can always go back to Gecko, the code doesnt disappear just because its not being used, and the web browser world got a bit of research and development for future endeavors.

                    I wish Mozilla all the best, and I'm looking forward to testing this in the future.
                    I would agree with 1), but they would be stupid to drop gecko as it might be the most compatible html renderer out there (don't forget all those years of ie6, where they worked hard to develop compatibility for "optimized" sites...that should all still exist, and is something webkit hasn't had to deal with as much).
                    For 2) I think they've actually said exactly that. If there is only one engine, there would be little point to the w3c. It would be the de facto standard.
                    I've really felt of rebirth of moz luv lately. FFOS, asm.js, pancake (though ios ONLY! ), webmaker, and so much more. They are really committed to an open, first class web.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                      This announcement said a few things to me....
                      I think you're probably reading too much into it though. This isn't about Firefox moving from Gecko to Servo - it's an experimental engine, designed to establish how things could be done better. It might eventually replace Gecko - but more likely, it'll result in ideas propagating back to be applied to the existing engine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        note that what more or less happened is that some samsung guys dropped the code and mozilla was like "oh hey cool thanks!" and also "lets talk about this!" because talking about this - servo, rust that is - is a good thing anyway - even thus samsung probably develop stuff on their side in the dark and suddenly drop code.

                        rust is a pretty damn nice language. its fast and safe. C++ kind of fast. And servo attempts to implement everything a modern browser should ideally be.

                        Also, Contrarily to comment 2.. Mozilla actually.. develop and take decisions fully in the open. Heck even the security reviews are public. The security meetings.. are public. It's not about the source code being open, but their whole process is open. You can participate to decisions if you want. Not by commenting here, not by posting a single bug (although if its really insightful, people will certainly take it into account), but by actively taking part of the project (this does take time) and make your voice heard.

                        I'm sure Mozilla isn't perfect (far from it) and some people there either, but its pretty damn nearer to my ideals than other companies, personally. At least they seems to really attempt to "do no evil". The corporation is governed by a foundation, everything's open and they usually fight for privacy and user control against the odds.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by balouba View Post
                          note that what more or less happened is that some samsung guys dropped the code and mozilla was like "oh hey cool thanks!" and also "lets talk about this!" because talking about this - servo, rust that is - is a good thing anyway - even thus samsung probably develop stuff on their side in the dark and suddenly drop code.

                          rust is a pretty damn nice language. its fast and safe. C++ kind of fast. And servo attempts to implement everything a modern browser should ideally be.

                          Also, Contrarily to comment 2.. Mozilla actually.. develop and take decisions fully in the open. Heck even the security reviews are public. The security meetings.. are public. It's not about the source code being open, but their whole process is open. You can participate to decisions if you want. Not by commenting here, not by posting a single bug (although if its really insightful, people will certainly take it into account), but by actively taking part of the project (this does take time) and make your voice heard.

                          I'm sure Mozilla isn't perfect (far from it) and some people there either, but its pretty damn nearer to my ideals than other companies, personally. At least they seems to really attempt to "do no evil". The corporation is governed by a foundation, everything's open and they usually fight for privacy and user control against the odds.

                          Actually, Rust and Servo have been in development for about a year now. The source code is completely open, go download it. Most of the work on these two have been done by Mozilla employees.
                          What Mozilla have announced today is that Samsung will help port Servo to ARM hardware only.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mayankleoboy1 View Post
                            Actually, Rust and Servo have been in development for about a year now. The source code is completely open, go download it. Most of the work on these two have been done by Mozilla employees.
                            What Mozilla have announced today is that Samsung will help port Servo to ARM hardware only.
                            Actually Rust has been in development since 2006 with Mozilla being fully involved since 2009. It was one of those experimental projects that have only gained press attention recently though.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              and they usually fight for privacy and user control against the odds.
                              They allow third party cookies, do not enable "do not track" by default and use Google as default search engine. On top of that, they frequently promote Facebook, Twitter or such. Seems legit.

                              Comment

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