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Linux Group Files Complaint With EU Over SecureBoot

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  • #31
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    Microsoft should have every right to secure their systems as they see fit. This endless whining over SecureBoot is getting ridiculous.
    Their systems sure, but not my pc.


    openSUSE supports both, uefi and secureboot.

    But to install suse, you need to go into windows 8, and tell windows to boot from dvd at next start up.

    Pc stand for personal computer, not for m$ controlled system.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Gps4l View Post
      Their systems sure, but not my pc.


      openSUSE supports both, uefi and secureboot.

      But to install suse, you need to go into windows 8, and tell windows to boot from dvd at next start up.

      Pc stand for personal computer, not for m$ controlled system.
      Completely agree.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Gps4l View Post
        Their systems sure, but not my pc.


        openSUSE supports both, uefi and secureboot.

        But to install suse, you need to go into windows 8, and tell windows to boot from dvd at next start up.

        Pc stand for personal computer, not for m$ controlled system.
        If you're buying a Windows 8-certified PC, that's what you're getting. Don't want it locked down? Don't buy it.

        The idea that a manufacturer doesn't have a right to control their product or try things to make it more secure is kinda absurd.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by johnc View Post
          If you're buying a Windows 8-certified PC, that's what you're getting. Don't want it locked down? Don't buy it.

          The idea that a manufacturer doesn't have a right to control their product or try things to make it more secure is kinda absurd.
          MS does not build pc's So they are not a pc manufacturer.
          Yet at the moment, if I buy a new motherboard, I have a problem, when I want to install Linux, because of w8.

          You seem to fail to understand the difference between an os and a pc.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by johnc View Post
            If you're buying a Windows 8-certified PC, that's what you're getting. Don't want it locked down? Don't buy it.
            Windows 8-certified means that device support that operating system with the ability to disable it
            The idea that a manufacturer doesn't have a right to control their product or try things to make it more secure is kinda absurd.
            .It seems that manufacturer lost that right when they let themselves dictated by a single software company instead of adhering to real industrial standards for a long time.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by johnc View Post
              Microsoft should have every right to secure their systems as they see fit.
              Sure and it has the right to do that in "Microsoft PCs", but they make none (I do not count Microsoft Surface as PC)....

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              • #37
                Originally posted by juanrga View Post
                Sure and it has the right to do that in "Microsoft PCs", but they make none (I do not count Microsoft Surface as PC)....
                They clearly partner with vendors such as Dell and HP to sell "Microsoft-certified" PCs.

                If somebody wants an Arch Linux PC from Dell or whoever, they're free to plead their case.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Gps4l View Post
                  MS does not build pc's So they are not a pc manufacturer.
                  Yet at the moment, if I buy a new motherboard, I have a problem, when I want to install Linux, because of w8.

                  You seem to fail to understand the difference between an os and a pc.
                  For my edification, on which motherboards can you not install Linux "at the moment"? I'd like to know so I can scratch them off my list.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Gps4l View Post
                    openSUSE supports both, uefi and secureboot.

                    But to install suse, you need to go into windows 8, and tell windows to boot from dvd at next start up.
                    This is completely incorrect. you don't even have to boot windows 8 once to install SuSE on a win8 certified PC. You can go straight into the BIOS setup and disable Secure Boot, delete the platform keys and what not (and replace them with your own keys if you wish). This takes 30 seconds, at most.

                    I just did so on two random production laptops last week. Took me literally that - 30 seconds - before I could install a Linux OS.

                    The amount of FUD by folks in this thread is just incredible. Please stop spreading nonsense, and educate yourself.

                    For a good read, go and read Matthew Garrett's blog - http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/

                    And please, stop repeating nonsense, you're only adding to the misinformation.

                    Don't believe me? Try James Bottomley's HOWTO describing how to own your own system: http://blog.hansenpartnership.com/ow...uefi-platform/

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by johnc View Post
                      For my edification, on which motherboards can you not install Linux "at the moment"? I'd like to know so I can scratch them off my list.
                      This is a much more intesting question: Are motherboards sold without OS but with Microsoft keys? I would somewhat frown on that, and I would certainly think that's a very. very slippery slope legally. Also, are these motherboards even shipped with Secure Boot enabled? My guess is, none of that, and this is all misinformation.

                      But if you find a motherboard like this, please share this information. There's a few folks that would love to know, not just for scratch list purposes.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by brosis View Post
                        The vendor support will say - we support windows only.
                        Windows only support means - microsoft certification is required.
                        Microsoft certification means - need secure boot.
                        Secure boot means - we control what you can boot.

                        To prove me wrong, try to boot what you own on "secure boot" enabled system without contacting or contracting microsoft.

                        True secure boot would mean - user is able to dictate firmware the CRC for any piece of software he uses, as well that chain loading process is good documented and transparent.
                        Currently UEFI is a mess and microsoft controls what user can boot.
                        You haven't read any of my previous posts, as I already explained that a system with (x86) UEFI Secure Boot can trivially be made to boot with any other OS. Without even booting win8 once.

                        And, the entire Secure Boot process is extremely transparent, but I'm not going to repeat all the public information that is already out there.

                        For reference, please read mjg59's blog, or James Bottomley's blog posts. It points out all the holes in your post above, and provides you with real information on how to do what you think you can't. I've posted links in another post in this thread.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by sofar View Post
                          This is completely incorrect. you don't even have to boot windows 8 once to install SuSE on a win8 certified PC. You can go straight into the BIOS setup and disable Secure Boot, delete the platform keys and what not (and replace them with your own keys if you wish). This takes 30 seconds, at most.

                          I just did so on two random production laptops last week. Took me literally that - 30 seconds - before I could install a Linux OS.

                          The amount of FUD by folks in this thread is just incredible. Please stop spreading nonsense, and educate yourself.

                          For a good read, go and read Matthew Garrett's blog - http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/

                          And please, stop repeating nonsense, you're only adding to the misinformation.

                          Don't believe me? Try James Bottomley's HOWTO describing how to own your own system: http://blog.hansenpartnership.com/ow...uefi-platform/
                          There -are- boards on sale today that don't have configuration options to disable Secureboot. Telling people that they can simply disable Secureboot only covers the fringe cases.. You know the rare edge cases. Like I said we arent specifically dealing with enthusiast class users here. Secureboot -is- a major issue for average users. You try explaining to someone why they can't boot up to the liveDVD they just downloaded and then tell them they need to disable Secureboot by configuring the firmware options and they will laugh at you and ask how much is it going to cost them.

                          I'll admit that the majority of the people you'll find posting on this forum probably won't have much difficulty. But thats the whole problem. It doesnt stop people who know what they are doing. It only hurts legitimate users who don't know what they are doing. And lets just admit thats the vast majority of people.

                          Its the typical restriction management crap.
                          Last edited by duby229; 03-27-2013, 01:29 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                            There -are- boards on sale today that don't have configuration options to disable Secureboot.
                            Can you list boards (x86, I'm not talking about ARM) that have this?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                              There -are- boards on sale today that don't have configuration options to disable Secureboot.
                              Such as?

                              You try explaining to someone why they can't boot up to the liveDVD they just downloaded and then tell them they need to disable Secureboot by configuring the firmware options and they will laugh at you and ask how much is it going to cost them.
                              Why would they need to disable Secure Boot? There's no excuse for distributions not to support it now.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by sofar View Post
                                Don't believe me? Try James Bottomley's HOWTO describing how to own your own system: http://blog.hansenpartnership.com/ow...uefi-platform/
                                "You could also (assuming you never plan to boot windows) delete all the microsoft keys from the system. Beware if you decide to do this that some of your UEFI drivers may be signed by microsoft keys, and removing them all may limit the functionality of your UEFI platform. Additionally, any UEFI update to your system is also likely to come signed with the microsoft keys, however, in this case you can put the Microsoft keys back before doing the update."

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