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KDE 4.10 Officially Released With Many Changes

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  • Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    Right, that must be why all the desktop KDE applications are being rewritten in QML...oh wait, they aren't.

    You apparently don't know the difference between "deprecated" and "feature complete". QWidgets are considered feature complete, not deprecated. That means they will be in Qt 6. The may be marked as deprecated in Qt 6 and removed in Qt 7, but that is probably 15 years away.
    KDE already started transition to QML. Rewrite of all KDE application won't start tomorrow, but following years as Qt6 will be released around year 2020.
    http://kde.org/announcements/4.10/plasma.php
    Plasma Workspaces have been refined considerably. Work continues on updating widgets with new ones built with Qt Quick. This effort brings improvements in consistency, layout behavior, stability, ease of use and performance. It is also now easier to build widgets, entirely new Plasma Workspace layouts and other custom enhancements. A new QML-based screen locker makes Workspaces more secure.
    Qt5 Widgets aren't feature complete if e.g. hardware acceleration isn't supported unlike QML. Widgets are deprecated if Digia has decided Widgets won't support hardware acceleration.
    List of features supported by QML but unsupported by Widgets will grow which will cause devs to rewrite apps using QML.
    When all big apps will be rewritten, Digia will drop Widgets to save manpower needed for maintenance.
    Last edited by JS987; 03-02-2013, 09:26 AM.

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    • Originally posted by JS987 View Post
      KDE already started transition to QML. Rewrite of all KDE application won't start tomorrow, but following years as Qt6 will be released around year 2020.

      Qt5 Widgets aren't feature complete if e.g. hardware acceleration isn't supported unlike QML. Widgets are deprecated if Digia has decided Widgets won't support hardware acceleration.
      List of features supported by QML but unsupported by Widgets will grow which will cause devs to rewrite apps using QML.
      When all big apps will be rewritten, Digia will drop Widgets to save manpower needed for maintenance.
      Are you kidding me? Do you realize that only now that Qt 5 is already out are the last parts of KDE SC are finally being ported away from qt3support? And this is when Qt4 provides clear advantages over Qt3, and where qt3support was explicitly deprecated. It was simply too much work despite the benefits.

      On the other hand QML has absolutely no benefit whatsoever for most desktop apps. Unless it is something that needs a lot of very fluid animations, like widgets or games, QML provides no benefit, in fact in some ways it makes it harder.

      Besides plasma, look at the QML applications being created right now. They are pretty much all completely separate applications from the desktop versions, only sharing underlying libraries and logic. Even in these situations, the situations where you would most expect them to want to use QML on the desktop, the developers have no plans whatsoever to port the desktop applications to QML.

      So yes, when all the major apps are no longer using qwidget them may deprecate it. But that looks to be a very, very long way off.

      QML has been around for over 3 years now, nearly half the lifespan of Qt4, and there is no move whatsoever towards porting any desktop applications to QML besides workspaces and games.

      Don't get me wrong, we probably will start seeing QML used to a limited extent in situations where its animations are needed. But all indications right now are that those will be the exception rather than the rule.
      Last edited by TheBlackCat; 03-02-2013, 11:09 AM.

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      • Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
        But all indications right now are that those will be the exception rather than the rule.
        So how many "expetions" do we need before you STFU? Everybody knows KDE is being pushed towards QML because of Qts QML legacy. Redoing in QML is low gain, high risk, high cost.

        Qt rapes KDE. LoL.

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        • Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
          So how many "expetions" do we need before you STFU? Everybody knows KDE is being pushed towards QML because of Qts QML legacy. Redoing in QML is low gain, high risk, high cost. Qt rapes KDE. LoL.
          As I get it, Qwidget has a richer feature set than QtQuick (using QML) while both provide nearly the same functionality: http://arstechnica.com/information-t...es-with-qt-47/

          Qwidget was the original set and therefore a very large part of KDE is using that. QML was later gaining ground and has effectively replaced QWidget as the default class. Rewriting anything Qwidget into QML is a non-trivial task.

          I'm not sure if all is all that bad in the long run, if only maintenance of QWidget can be kept. From the arstechnica link:

          QML is designed to take advantage of Qt's powerful model/view/controller (MVC) framework, meaning that existing Qt applications designed around Qt's MVC classes will be easy to refit with a QML user interface. This opens up a path for bringing existing Qt desktop applications to mobile devices. Developers merely have to add a few roles to their model and then expose it to a QML view, where a touchscreen-friendly interface can be created with a little bit of declarative scripting.
          FWIW, also former Gnome-lover Canonical is in the same boat since two years, once they voluntarily jumped onto the Qt boat (http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/3214):

          The “Unity 2D” desktop is to provide a Unity environment without the need for OpenGL or any accelerated graphics drivers, but is built using Qt and QML.
          That should mean something for the long run.

          From that perspective alone, the QWidget class is deprecated, not KDE dying.

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          • Originally posted by sabriah View Post
            As I get it, Qwidget has a richer feature set than QtQuick (using QML) while both provide nearly the same functionality: http://arstechnica.com/information-t...es-with-qt-47/

            Qwidget was the original set and therefore a very large part of KDE is using that. QML was later gaining ground and has effectively replaced QWidget as the default class. Rewriting anything Qwidget into QML is a non-trivial task.

            I'm not sure if all is all that bad in the long run, if only maintenance of QWidget can be kept. From the arstechnica link:



            FWIW, also former Gnome-lover Canonical is in the same boat since two years, once they voluntarily jumped onto the Qt boat (http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/3214):



            That should mean something for the long run.

            From that perspective alone, the QWidget class is deprecated, not KDE dying.
            Youre apparently new on the forums Meet FunkSTAR, he's an anti-kde, anti-Qt troll that will refute any argument you give with the most vitriol and venom that he can muster at that moment in time. Recommendation? Ignore list

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            • Originally posted by Ericg View Post
              Youre apparently new on the forums Meet FunkSTAR, he's an anti-kde, anti-Qt troll that will refute any argument you give with the most vitriol and venom that he can muster at that moment in time. Recommendation? Ignore list
              I don't recall reading his posts before, but I took it as he was defending KDE's future, even if in an unorthodox manner.

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              • Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                Honestly hate to give you this response, cuz I think its a but I dont know what else to do....
                Well, it's a fair response .
                Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                1) File bug reports
                I've already made a couple.

                Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                2) Test it on a system other than Debian/Ubuntu based before you really make a judgement.
                Sounds reasonable, but I'd have to install another distro and then configure it equivalently, and I don't really have the time to do that just now. So I made my judgement on the basis of "does it work here, now, with my settings", which is a clear no...
                With regards to your other points; I know my setup doesn't necessarily lend itself to total stability, but I've had very few library version or other problems before, over several KDE 4.x versions on this install. I've used every single 4.x.x release from 4.0 onwards, this is the only one so far where I've experienced serious new bugs/regressions in most areas. I'm not saying that none of the trouble is caused by my distro, but I highly doubt that's the only cause.

                Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                I have had literally NONE of the problems you're describing, though I dont use the comic strip (do use the weather though, no problems) so its got to be something specific to your combination of software (/software versions)
                Well, I've been in that position when others were moaning about KDE bugs, several times. There seem to be lots of installation/config/distro-related bugs...

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                • Now some people are taking funky seriously, and Digia is blackmailing KDE into rewriting several million lines of code in QML :rofl:.

                  QML is being used for desktop widgets, because it's a convenient way to do that, that's it. Nobody is going to rewrite all of KDE in QML, FFS, just stop believing random rubbish on the internet.

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                  • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    Now some people are taking funky seriously, and Digia is blackmailing KDE into rewriting several million lines of code in QML :rofl:.

                    QML is being used for desktop widgets, because it's a convenient way to do that, that's it. Nobody is going to rewrite all of KDE in QML, FFS, just stop believing random rubbish on the internet.
                    Nobody believed it would be a sane idea to rewrite anything.

                    Still, I hadn't realized he had been toking with Lawrence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3ecDYxOkg

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