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KDE 4.10 Officially Released With Many Changes

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  • #91
    I had issues with KDE 4.8.4 and mesa 9.1 (tested with intel hd 4000). Then i compiled the wheezy kde-workspace with that patch:

    https://projects.kde.org/projects/kd...opengl_glx.cpp

    After that it seemed to be fixed. I never tested KDE 4.10. If you use a KDE version that has this patch it should be fine - before i had even hard xserver crashes.
    Last edited by Kano; 02-28-2013, 11:33 AM.

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    • #92
      Hmm. In previous threads I've expressed my satisfaction with recent KDE releases - the whole series from 4.0* to 4.9 was a continuous improvement to me (with my use-cases on my systems - it seems some people had less luck), and especially 4.6 - 4.9 were incredibly polished/stable/feature-complete.

      I can't say I'm anywhere near as impressed with 4.10; there've been seemingly idiotic regressions in some areas, especially the QML-rewritten plasmoids...why bother releasing your remade versions if they have (literally) less than half the features in some cases, and break almost every use-case I could actually thing of? The new screenlocking feature doesn't actually lock the screen properly, the power-management doesn't work, plasma-desktop crashes occasionally (never in 4.8/9).

      At least Nepomuk is better, some of the applications have considerable improvements and they fixed the ugly background to the various settings/help windows.

      It's still my DE of choice, and hopefully 4.10.x will tidy up bugs and a few feature-regressions, but it does seem to be a backward step overall. Which is a shame.

      *Yes, yes, I know *anything* could be an improvement on 4.0...

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      • #93
        Originally posted by FLHerne View Post
        Hmm. In previous threads I've expressed my satisfaction with recent KDE releases - the whole series from 4.0* to 4.9 was a continuous improvement to me (with my use-cases on my systems - it seems some people had less luck), and especially 4.6 - 4.9 were incredibly polished/stable/feature-complete.

        I can't say I'm anywhere near as impressed with 4.10; there've been seemingly idiotic regressions in some areas, especially the QML-rewritten plasmoids...why bother releasing your remade versions if they have (literally) less than half the features in some cases, and break almost every use-case I could actually thing of? The new screenlocking feature doesn't actually lock the screen properly, the power-management doesn't work, plasma-desktop crashes occasionally (never in 4.8/9).

        At least Nepomuk is better, some of the applications have considerable improvements and they fixed the ugly background to the various settings/help windows.

        It's still my DE of choice, and hopefully 4.10.x will tidy up bugs and a few feature-regressions, but it does seem to be a backward step overall. Which is a shame.

        *Yes, yes, I know *anything* could be an improvement on 4.0...
        Distro you're using, FLHerne? Because I think I've only had one crash for 4.10 and what QML plasmoids are you having problems with?? Screenlocker is working just fine over here on Arch x86_64, power management is working fine except on systemd systems and thats due to a bug that is getting fixed in 4.10.1 (patch already committed to master & 4.10 branch)

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        • #94
          I'm using RC2 currently and it is already running great.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by FLHerne View Post
            there've been seemingly idiotic regressions in some areas, especially the QML-rewritten plasmoids...why bother releasing your remade versions if they have (literally) less than half the features in some cases, and break almost every use-case I could actually thing of? The new screenlocking feature doesn't actually lock the screen properly, the power-management doesn't work, plasma-desktop crashes occasionally (never in 4.8/9).
            The idiotic forced use of QML is caused by Qts directions. Qt was meant to be Nokias way ahead. This impacts Qt5 and thus KDEs future. Even now. The Qt people are pushing QML, because they have no other choice. KDE have to obey Qt. So yeah expect more shit like this.

            KDE is failing anyway. 4.10 had virtual no impact on the userbase at Arch. Like 1%. And Linus is back on the most extendable DE. Sorry KDE Now go die.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
              The idiotic forced use of QML is caused by Qts directions. Qt was meant to be Nokias way ahead. This impacts Qt5 and thus KDEs future. Even now. The Qt people are pushing QML, because they have no other choice. KDE have to obey Qt. So yeah expect more shit like this.
              A blatant lie and you know it. Qt has absolutely no control whatsoever over KDE. KDE devs are using QML because it provides them advantages.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                A blatant lie and you know it. Qt has absolutely no control whatsoever over KDE. KDE devs are using QML because it provides them advantages.
                Nope this is no lie... KDE was, is, and will always be a tech demo for Qt... KDE devs always seem to want to use and demonstrate each new feature Qt develops, instead of focusing on improving their existing software which is full of bugs and other problems...

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                  A blatant lie and you know it. Qt has absolutely no control whatsoever over KDE. KDE devs are using QML because it provides them advantages.
                  KDE devs are forced to use QML because development of Widgets is stopped. Qt5 supports Widgets only because of backward compatibility.
                  Last edited by JS987; 03-01-2013, 01:01 PM.

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                  • #99
                    ...QML will help KDE devs to make KDE more bloated. KDE will be have to rewritten using QML because Qt6 won't probably support Widgets.

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                    • Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                      Distro you're using, FLHerne? Because I think I've only had one crash for 4.10 and what QML plasmoids are you having problems with?? Screenlocker is working just fine over here on Arch x86_64, power management is working fine except on systemd systems and thats due to a bug that is getting fixed in 4.10.1 (patch already committed to master & 4.10 branch)
                      Much-ppa'd Mint KDE, and I know that's probably not the best solution. I might try Arch when I get time and/or a new HDD, presumably you'd recommend it...
                      I was previously a Debian user, got fed up of the constant outdatedness (even in Testing).

                      Power management is very broken - buttons don't do anything, DBus messages don't do anything, pretty much nothing does except shutdown -h -P now. . Screenlocker is quite shiny, but has the alarming characteristic of displaying the desktop/windows (no interaction, it hangs momentarily) for a bit before it slaps the locker on and asks for a password after resuming from suspend*.

                      Plasmoid-wise, the device notifier doesn't reliably notify me about new devices, when it does the device action buttons often don't actually do anything. Notifications have a tendency to pop up where the bottom corner on my screen would be if it was 1024x768, the weather widget crashed plasma-desktop twice** while trying to get me a forecast, and the comic strip*** has had so many features stripped out (resizing to currently-displayed strip, show icons instead of words in the tab-bar...) that it's all but unusable in any role. It's useful if you want to look at exactly one comic, in which every strip is always an identical size - so not even Calvin&Hobbes, let alone the dozen-or-so wildly varying ones I had.

                      *Yes, suspend works very occasionally, perhaps PM isn't _completely_ broken...
                      **plasma-desktop has crashed itself a dozen times in a week, too. Given that 4.7 was quite good, 4.8 crashed once and I had no crashes at alll with 4.9, that's quite a big step back.
                      ***It's not actually _important_, if important means productive, but I don't see the point in replacing something non-broken with something that simply isn't close to equivalent. Quite ridiculous.

                      It certainly won't put me off KDE as a one-off (I put up with 4.0, after all ) - but it's certainly reduced my confidence that the devs are paying enough attention to QA; there are just so many things broken for me in this release.

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                      • Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
                        Nope this is no lie... KDE was, is, and will always be a tech demo for Qt... KDE devs always seem to want to use and demonstrate each new feature Qt develops, instead of focusing on improving their existing software which is full of bugs and other problems...
                        You now they should use motif. If they had masturbated the same motif apps in 20 years now everything should be perfect.

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                        • Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
                          Nope this is no lie... KDE was, is, and will always be a tech demo for Qt... KDE devs always seem to want to use and demonstrate each new feature Qt develops, instead of focusing on improving their existing software which is full of bugs and other problems...
                          Even if that were true (which it isn't, Qt devs have come out with a ton of stuff KDE devs completely ignored because it wouldn't improve users' experiences with KDE), it still wouldn't mean that "KDE have to obey Qt.

                          And it is absurd to call KDE a "tech demo for Qt". 90% of the stuff you can with the KDE you cannot do with Qt because KDE adds a ton of additional functionality. That is why it is so rare to see Qt-only Linux apps, KDE adds so much additional functionality there is pretty much no point.

                          "Hey, this is KDE. Look at what you can do with Qt"
                          "Cool, so I just download Qt and I can make my application do all that?"
                          "Well...no..you need to download tens of megabytes of additional KDE libraries to do most of those things...but the low-level stuff runs on Qt!"
                          "So why exactly should I use Qt instead of KDE?"

                          Yeah, great tech demo there...

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                          • Originally posted by JS987 View Post
                            KDE devs are forced to use QML because development of Widgets is stopped. Qt5 supports Widgets only because of backward compatibility.
                            Right, that must be why all the desktop KDE applications are being rewritten in QML...oh wait, they aren't.

                            You apparently don't know the difference between "deprecated" and "feature complete". QWidgets are considered feature complete, not deprecated. That means they will be in Qt 6. The may be marked as deprecated in Qt 6 and removed in Qt 7, but that is probably 15 years away.

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                            • Originally posted by FLHerne View Post
                              Much-ppa'd Mint KDE, and I know that's probably not the best solution. I might try Arch when I get time and/or a new HDD, presumably you'd recommend it...
                              I was previously a Debian user, got fed up of the constant outdatedness (even in Testing).

                              Power management is very broken - buttons don't do anything, DBus messages don't do anything, pretty much nothing does except shutdown -h -P now. . Screenlocker is quite shiny, but has the alarming characteristic of displaying the desktop/windows (no interaction, it hangs momentarily) for a bit before it slaps the locker on and asks for a password after resuming from suspend*.

                              Plasmoid-wise, the device notifier doesn't reliably notify me about new devices, when it does the device action buttons often don't actually do anything. Notifications have a tendency to pop up where the bottom corner on my screen would be if it was 1024x768, the weather widget crashed plasma-desktop twice** while trying to get me a forecast, and the comic strip*** has had so many features stripped out (resizing to currently-displayed strip, show icons instead of words in the tab-bar...) that it's all but unusable in any role. It's useful if you want to look at exactly one comic, in which every strip is always an identical size - so not even Calvin&Hobbes, let alone the dozen-or-so wildly varying ones I had.

                              *Yes, suspend works very occasionally, perhaps PM isn't _completely_ broken...
                              **plasma-desktop has crashed itself a dozen times in a week, too. Given that 4.7 was quite good, 4.8 crashed once and I had no crashes at alll with 4.9, that's quite a big step back.
                              ***It's not actually _important_, if important means productive, but I don't see the point in replacing something non-broken with something that simply isn't close to equivalent. Quite ridiculous.

                              It certainly won't put me off KDE as a one-off (I put up with 4.0, after all ) - but it's certainly reduced my confidence that the devs are paying enough attention to QA; there are just so many things broken for me in this release.
                              Honestly hate to give you this response, cuz I think its a but I dont know what else to do....

                              1) File bug reports
                              2) Test it on a system other than Debian/Ubuntu based before you really make a judgement.

                              Why #2? Ubuntu and Debian add patches, pull from git, backport changes, they do a lot of crap that can screw it up. Its one of the reasons I moved to Arch, I got tired of Ubuntu messing with Upstream. At least with Arch I know its from an actual release branch (not git-master) and they probably didnt add patches in. My recommendations are Arch (obviously) or openSuse, if either of those distros still have the bugs you're facing (you could prob test openSuse from the latest release candidate live image) then report them. If not, chalk it up to being library version incompatibilities since you're mixing PPA's / patches from non-upstream / random ubuntu crap.

                              I have had literally NONE of the problems you're describing, though I dont use the comic strip (do use the weather though, no problems) so its got to be something specific to your combination of software (/software versions)

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                              • Originally posted by Akka View Post
                                You now they should use motif. If they had masturbated the same motif apps in 20 years now everything should be perfect.
                                This is the best thing I've read all day.

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