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Nepomuk Sees Major Improvements In KDE 4.10

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Ericg View Post
    Rewritten taskbar was SUPPOSED to hit 4.10 but the developer didnt finish it so its been pushed back to 4.11...unfortuntately.
    I don't understand why there is so much bitching about a stupid task bar. Just use another one. The KDE project alone provides at least two (Icon Tasks being the other one). I use Smooth Tasks 2 which is absolutely awesome.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by orzel View Post
      Last time i checked it was not so easy to get rid of akonadi. But granted, it was some times ago.
      It's very easy. Only thing you need to do is not to start any applications that use Akonadi (KDE PIM suite), the default calendar can display Akonadi events you might need to disable that feature (it's a single option in the plasmoid's settings).

      Originally posted by orzel View Post
      Will it ? They've said so for the last.. 5 "major" releases i guess.. ? more maybe ?
      It was only recently someone actually picked up the work.

      Originally posted by orzel View Post
      And anyway, this is not the solution as akregator code is really ugly. I doubt that it is worth to port it to <whatever>. Better rewrite it, this would be a lot more efficient. And this time, prevent teenage monkeys to access the code for it.
      That just might happen and it will be a lot easier now that Akonadi supports RSS related stuff. There's a guy doing some work on new Akonadi based QML PIM applications.

      Originally posted by orzel View Post
      Will it ? I'll wait to check this as I've seen such kind of promesses for too long.
      So have I understood. The QML stuff is relatively new and will be finished in Plasma 2 that is still quite far away; it supports only QML plasmoids. Also some data engines will be run in separate processes IIRC.

      Originally posted by orzel View Post
      Sure? I've read that Martin himself is not interested in maintaining the BSD support in KWin but that does not mean that others don't do it.
      To my understanding he doesn't accept portability patches (of course someone could create some FreeBSD and work on it for example) and just recently he pointed out the benefits of that decission in his blog (which is down right now so I can't quote).

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
        I don't understand why there is so much bitching about a stupid task bar. Just use another one. The KDE project alone provides at least two (Icon Tasks being the other one). I use Smooth Tasks 2 which is absolutely awesome.
        I guess the point is that this is the *default* task bar ? Or is it not ? I'm not aware of this problem.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
          I don't understand why there is so much bitching about a stupid task bar. Just use another one. The KDE project alone provides at least two (Icon Tasks being the other one). I use Smooth Tasks 2 which is absolutely awesome.
          Because the task bar has 1 major, really annoying bug thats been known for years and never fixed. For awhile it was being looked into to be fixed but once the KDE devs decided to move everything to QML the bug got stalled.

          Thanks for the shoutout to Smooth Tasks2, installing it now to test it out. Looks interesting.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by orzel View Post
            I didn't mention konsole in the great applications, even though i use it daily. It is (imho) a very good application, just borked by the great idea to put all konsole shells in only task, so that any problem with one konsole tab will kill all your tabs. Yes, this is still valid, check current konsole code. More or less the same way they do with plasma so that any badly written plasmoid will kill your whole plasma (that is, if plasma doesn't kill itself before). And believe me, there are some very badly written plasmoid.
            My favourite example: Add the qalculate plasmoid, type in 2^10000000 and press enter. The complete desktop hangs. And when it is done with calculating, click on it: 100% cpu usage from kdeinit4 for several seconds. Just run plasmoids in their own threads or even processes already.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
              My favourite example: Add the qalculate plasmoid, type in 2^10000000 and press enter. The complete desktop hangs. And when it is done with calculating, click on it: 100% cpu usage from kdeinit4 for several seconds. Just run plasmoids in their own threads or even processes already.
              Yeah, that sort of thing annoys me too . Worse, the Comic Strip widget can be quite easily crashed by dodgy plugins (of which there are many) - which then brings the entire desktop down.
              User-produced plugins for a widget should really not be able to do that...

              I'm still impressed by the rate at which niggling bugs have been going down since 4.7 or so, however.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by orzel View Post
                I guess the point is that this is the *default* task bar ? Or is it not ?
                Distributors pick defaults.


                To recap answers about issues mentioned in this thread:
                On all PCs I have access to, only the mail indexer causes problems on a single PC and that's not even Nepomuk itself but only an individual plugin.
                It's totally unrealistic that Nepomuk can cause a PC not to boot.
                Using Plasma Desktop without Plasma is impossible.
                Akonadi is only required by a handful of applications and Plasma Desktop is not one of those.
                Problems with one task bar can be avoided by using another one. Icon Tasks and Smooth Tasks 2 seem to be the most popular alternatives.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                  Sure? I've read that Martin himself is not interested in maintaining the BSD support in KWin but that does not mean that others don't do it.
                  His points were:
                  http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...linux-systems/

                  * All for Wayland!
                  some time passed:
                  http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...ma-workspaces/
                  So KWin on non-Wayland-systems still will be supported...

                  * KMS is linux-only.
                  Wrong - ONE SINGLE FreeBSD-dev has ported recent mesa + xf86-video-intel to FreeBSD. So if kwin would depend on certain features only available through KMS FreeBSD will work (at least on intel GPUs).

                  * SystemD...
                  Mid-2011 he knew that systemd will get the only Linux-init-log-allinone-system-OS-whatever. And KDE (KWin/Plasma) will need quite some extra love in order to support other init-...-systems.
                  1.5 years later and this still is not true. And I even can't imagine where a window manager should depend on special feature only exposed by systemd...

                  As long as there are FreeBSD/Solaris/...-Devs that support KDE KDE will run on FreeBSD/Solaris/... It's open source. Keep that in mind.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                    * SystemD...
                    Mid-2011 he knew that systemd will get the only Linux-init-log-allinone-system-OS-whatever. And KDE (KWin/Plasma) will need quite some extra love in order to support other init-...-systems.
                    1.5 years later and this still is not true. And I even can't imagine where a window manager should depend on special feature only exposed by systemd...
                    As I understand Aseigos blog, in the next realese of plasma active (released in some moths I think) systemd userspace is used instead of kdes own service manager. I get the impression they plan support systemd userspace and use their old userspace service manager as some sort of fallback on system without systemd. But I'm unsure how much this really concern kwin

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Akka View Post
                      As I understand Aseigos blog, in the next realese of plasma active (released in some moths I think) systemd userspace is used instead of kdes own service manager. I get the impression they plan support systemd userspace and use their old userspace service manager as some sort of fallback on system without systemd. But I'm unsure how much this really concern kwin
                      Ah, hidden in a post about Active 4 - I usually skip all tablet/smartphone/micordevice-stuff...
                      http://aseigo.blogspot.de/2013/01/plasma-active-4.html
                      In the comments:
                      Once solidified, I'd like to see this work made available to the desktop. Obviously, we'll need to keep startkde for non-systemd systems, but that's easy enough: it hasn't changed in forever.
                      kwin should not be affected, as startkde actually works

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                        kwin should not be affected, as startkde actually works
                        You can even use KWin as a standalone window manager (run kwin --replace on some XFCE environment for example) so it's not in anyway dependent of startkde script or systemd.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
                          My favourite example: Add the qalculate plasmoid, type in 2^10000000 and press enter. The complete desktop hangs. And when it is done with calculating, click on it: 100% cpu usage from kdeinit4 for several seconds. Just run plasmoids in their own threads or even processes already.
                          This. And please, PLEASE, make them run in different processes -- the diagnosing of such problems (and memory leaks) will be instantaneous and not requiring even developer tools.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
                            My favourite example: Add the qalculate plasmoid, type in 2^10000000 and press enter. The complete desktop hangs. And when it is done with calculating, click on it: 100% cpu usage from kdeinit4 for several seconds. Just run plasmoids in their own threads or even processes already.
                            This should already be fixed in Plasma2. IIRC lower-end changes in Qt were required first and Qt5 offers those.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by tomato View Post
                              This. And please, PLEASE, make them run in different processes -- the diagnosing of such problems (and memory leaks) will be instantaneous and not requiring even developer tools.
                              I don't think that is feasible. Plasmoids is not some additional widgets. They are the core desktop. as I understand it.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Akka View Post
                                I don't think that is feasible. Plasmoids is not some additional widgets. They are the core desktop. as I understand it.
                                It was done in plasma2, which will be in KDE5.0 whenever that comes out.

                                I don't think the devs considered porting that work back to KDE4 because it's going to cause a pretty massive API change, breaking widgets that rely on being in the same process as the desktop.

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