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Nepomuk Sees Major Improvements In KDE 4.10

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  • #46
    Originally posted by orzel View Post
    They do. What i meant was that buggy stuff keeps on being merged and bugs keep on being piled on the bugtracker. Or, if you prefer, they might be the 'structure', but it fails doing its job.
    There has been a lot of advancement on that area in the recent years. For example thanks to Git the master branch should always be ready to release; leading to less breakage in practise. There has been action to triage, fix and clean up the bug in bug trackers for projects like Dolphin, KWin, Nepomuk, Kate and Plasma just to name a few. In 2011 Trueg for example fixed all Nepomuk crashes and I would say that the project has been rock solid since (not that it would have crashed for me anyway).

    Originally posted by orzel View Post
    I keep on reading this excuse "it's distro fault". But as said, those bugs are uniform among distribution. I see this around me on the computers i administer, and you can easily check on forums/trackers for different distributions how the problems are uniform.
    Well they sure aren't that commont and crashes are usually the stuff that is fixed first. They can also easily result from bad packaging.

    Originally posted by orzel View Post
    I did lost a lot of time carefully reporting bugs with details and so, but none were fixed, most were ignored, and few of them were just denied. I've stopped reporting bugs to KDE when i stopped using it.
    Assuming that you are Orzel in KDE bug tracker then you have not reported a single bug for Plasma or Nepomuk (unless I'm missing something). Most seem to be fixed too. If not then please point me to the bugs you are refering to.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Teho View Post
      KDE has a QA Team and a Extra Mile Initiative and I would say that they are doing pretty good job nowadays. There hasn't been major bugs that would have affected me in 4.x.0 in a long time and even the first betas are usually working fine but if that isn't enough KDE releases five bug fix releases for every major version.


      I think there's something seriously wrong with your distribution if Plasma, Amarok and Nepomuk are crashing or "exploding". I remember Nepomuk crashing in some beta year or two back, Plasma used to crash in the 4.3 times but after that and Amarok has never crashed for me, I think. I'm sure you have reported those bugs for your distribution/KDE?
      Plasma has been randomly crashing for me up to 4.7 but it's better now. But I can still (4.10 beta) reliably make it segfault by using the panel resize function and quickly "shaking" it a little bit.

      Kwin sometimes crashes with the intel driver. It's only very occassionally but it does happen.

      Then the taskbar plasmoid even in the 4.10 beta not reliably ordering entries. Just yesterday it stacked two entries.

      The real buggy things are the programs that don't belong to kde itself but are kde related like akregator. It segfaulted randomly (probably while fetching feeds) up to 4.10 beta, but I think it stopped now. But it still can't get ordering feeds right. Especially the feed from fefe's blog is bad (http://blog.fefe.de/rss.xml?html). There are entries from phoronix, planet archlinux, smbc, spiked math, etc. randomly "leaking" into it.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
        Then the taskbar plasmoid even in the 4.10 beta not reliably ordering entries. Just yesterday it stacked two entries.
        That came up in the last "KDE" Thread. That bug, for all intents and purposes, is "WONTFIX" since the taskbar is being rewritten in QML which will either 1) Fix the stackng issue on its own or 2) Make all the bug reports for that bug completely useless since its not even remotely the same code anymore. Rewritten taskbar was SUPPOSED to hit 4.10 but the developer didnt finish it so its been pushed back to 4.11...unfortuntately.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Ericg View Post
          That came up in the last "KDE" Thread. That bug, for all intents and purposes, is "WONTFIX" since <blabla>.
          They are all WONTFIX because all parts are being written and written again. Great way to clean the tracker. This taskbar has been since.. kde 4 ? That is 4 years ago ? Whether design-wise or maintenance-wise, something that is still as broken 4 years later shows that there is a BIG engineering problem somewhere. Definitely. My opinion is that LOT of code in KDE shouldn't have landed there at first.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
            The real buggy things are the programs that don't belong to kde itself but are kde related like akregator.
            I disagree.

            First, because if this was true, then we could happily use KDE and just ignore such garbage. But it is not possible. All those so-said "technologies" they are so proud of are deeply connected / interlocked, and this is design decision (or lack of) at the very core of KDE, not in applications. The user is forced to have all this ugly mysql / java / whatever stuff killing his ressources.

            Then because i think that (currently) the best part of KDE are some very great applications (okular, gwenview, dolphin, okteta). Unfortunately, indeed, there are a lot of garbage one, and 'akregator' is actually the worse i've seen. Have any developper ever has a look at the code in the last 10 years ? I guess that all those who did died righ away. You can check the logs, only minor stuff is touched (CMakefiles, translations, typos..). No wonder why : this is one of the ugliest code i've ever seen. It's UGLY AS HELL. If you're a developer, just have a look by yourself (be warned, this is frightening). There is some stuff like 3 or more "high-level-concept-i've read design patterns" classes with (Qt-)connections looping between all of them. It's a miracle that the application even starts. When some kind of event happens, an exponential sequence of signals are raised in loop, and it's yet another miracle that it actually stops one day.

            I didn't mention konsole in the great applications, even though i use it daily. It is (imho) a very good application, just borked by the great idea to put all konsole shells in only task, so that any problem with one konsole tab will kill all your tabs. Yes, this is still valid, check current konsole code. More or less the same way they do with plasma so that any badly written plasmoid will kill your whole plasma (that is, if plasma doesn't kill itself before). And believe me, there are some very badly written plasmoid.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Teho View Post
              There has been a lot of advancement on that area in the recent years. For example thanks to Git the master branch ...
              Having a branch in git is a tool. A great one, but that doesn't fix stuff magically.

              Originally posted by Teho View Post
              Assuming that you are Orzel in KDE bug tracker then you have not reported a single bug for Plasma or Nepomuk (unless I'm missing something). Most seem to be fixed too. If not then please point me to the bugs you are refering to.
              This is me. I didn't report bug for plasma/nepomuk because I did not use them. My only concern was to get rid of them, which could be achieved by a mix of configuration / few local patches.
              Later on, when facing nepomuk/plasma problems on friends/family computers, i had stopped hoping for anything useful from the bugtracker, so i had stopped wasting time reporting bugs there.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by orzel View Post
                Having a branch in git is a tool. A great one, but that doesn't fix stuff magically.
                It doesn't fix anything but the developement model that it allows reduces the changes of things going wrong.

                Originally posted by orzel View Post
                First, because if this was true, then we could happily use KDE and just ignore such garbage. But it is not possible. All those so-said "technologies" they are so proud of are deeply connected / interlocked, and this is design decision (or lack of) at the very core of KDE, not in applications. The user is forced to have all this ugly mysql / java / whatever stuff killing his ressources.
                Akonadi is only started on demand (I for one don't use it at all currently) and Nepomuk can be disabled from system settings. Nepomuk hasn't used Java since forever.

                Originally posted by orzel View Post
                Unfortunately, indeed, there are a lot of garbage one, and 'akregator' is actually the worse i've seen. Have any developper ever has a look at the code in the last 10 years ?
                It was quite a dead project for a long time. Akregator 2 will be available in KDE SC 4.11, it has been ported to Akonadi among other things.

                Originally posted by orzel View Post
                More or less the same way they do with plasma so that any badly written plasmoid will kill your whole plasma (that is, if plasma doesn't kill itself before). And believe me, there are some very badly written plasmoid.
                This will fortunately be fixed in Plasma 2 with the complete port to QML. Many core plasmoids have already been ported to QML and I if I'm not mistaken they can't bring down Plasma anymore.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                  Rewritten taskbar was SUPPOSED to hit 4.10 but the developer didnt finish it so its been pushed back to 4.11...unfortuntately.
                  whaattt?!?!

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                  • #54
                    Another major improvement that KDE can do is to drop support for BSDs as they are irrelavent and don't cooperate and slow the project down.

                    Gnome has done this and they are making great advances.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by systemd rulez View Post
                      Another major improvement that KDE can do is to drop support for BSD...
                      KWin already did. I don't think the rest will follow though.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by boast View Post
                        whaattt?!?!
                        Yeah sorry Boast. (Hopefully) Up-To-Date listing of all QML porting: http://community.kde.org/Plasma/QMLPorting

                        The applet in question is "Task Manager" which is assigned to " <hein@kde.org> " unfortunately there's no "Location" filled in for a git url so if you want you could email him and ask him what the progress on it is and what the git url is.

                        If you do, be sure to post it here in the forums so we all know.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Teho View Post
                          Akonadi is only started on demand (I for one don't use it at all currently) and Nepomuk can be disabled from system settings. Nepomuk hasn't used Java since forever.
                          I remember that on some eeepc, it was not even possible to start, so I had to ssh to the computer without the user trying to log in and disable nepomuk. Settings aren't everything, sane defaults are great too. But this is minor, i agree.

                          Last time i checked it was not so easy to get rid of akonadi. But granted, it was some times ago.

                          Originally posted by Teho View Post
                          It was quite a dead project for a long time. Akregator 2 will be available in KDE SC 4.11, it has been ported to Akonadi among other things.
                          Will it ? They've said so for the last.. 5 "major" releases i guess.. ? more maybe ?
                          And.. how to say it. "porting to akonadi" sounds to me like "adding even more mess".
                          And anyway, this is not the solution as akregator code is really ugly. I doubt that it is worth to port it to <whatever>. Better rewrite it, this would be a lot more efficient. And this time, prevent teenage monkeys to access the code for it.

                          Originally posted by Teho View Post
                          This will fortunately be fixed in Plasma 2 with the complete port to QML. Many core plasmoids have already been ported to QML and I if I'm not mistaken they can't bring down Plasma anymore.
                          Will it ? I'll wait to check this as I've seen such kind of promesses for too long. They are good as writing todo list (which is ok, techbase is really great), but they are less than good at keeping the lists updated, and bad at actually doing those. This issue is huge and has been known forever.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by orzel View Post
                            You remove every plasmoid your distro has installed by default, and you dont install any new.
                            This line alone proves that you are lying. A KDE desktop without any Plasma applets is 100% empty and then there is still the Plasma-based containment rendering the wallpaper.

                            Again: Piss off to some Xfce or so forum. People may believe you there.

                            Originally posted by orzel View Post
                            This boost your average time between crashes and prevent memory use to explode.
                            Plasma neither crashes these days not does it eat up large amount of memory.

                            Originally posted by orzel View Post
                            And of course, you kill Amarok, but plasma is not the only reason why.
                            Amarok is not even the default KDE music player.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by orzel View Post
                              I remember that on some eeepc, it was not even possible to start, so I had to ssh to the computer without the user trying to log in and disable nepomuk.
                              Lie.

                              Originally posted by orzel View Post
                              Last time i checked it was not so easy to get rid of akonadi. But granted, it was some times ago.
                              And again a lie. Akonadi was never ever mandatory for the desktop itself. Individual apps may rely on it but that's it.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Teho View Post
                                KWin already did.
                                Sure? I've read that Martin himself is not interested in maintaining the BSD support in KWin but that does not mean that others don't do it.
                                He changed his plans several times already (eg. killing scripting was once on his agenda before he realized that reworking scripting results in easier to maintain effects).

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