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Nepomuk Sees Major Improvements In KDE 4.10

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
    Nepomuk is a pig. It's a research project that isn't ready for field trials. Fork the tree from it and work in parallel until it is fully core aware with OpenCL on both the CPU and GPGPU, then put it back in, but keep it optional for folks on older systems and weak GPGPUs.

    It never should have been turned on by default.
    Sounds like you haven't used in any recent version of KDE. It's not even a pig on my Core Solo ULV from 6 years ago. In any case, they make it super easy to pause indexing, so you can just enable it while you're not doing anything intensive, like when you're off to the kitchen for a cup of joe.

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    • #32
      Looks like I'm in the minority since I find nepomuk super useful. I often search contents of files like pdfs. And the new nepomuk plugin for Amarok is awesome. Who doesn't want the ability to move files around on your computer without breaking your music database? And how about real-time updating of metadata like ratings from various places (like Dolphin and Amarok)?

      I'm glad they're trying to work out all the kinks.

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      • #33
        I think Nepomuk is an awesome concept, and now it's finally getting fast/stable enough to be of practical use . In 4.9 I finally have it turned on with little noticeable impact on my system (~7yr old Pentium D), perhaps in 4.10 I'll be able to update that 'little' to 'no' .

        Akonadi was the same a year or two ago, I steered well clear of it in versions < 4.8, but with 4.8 and 4.9 I haven't yet had Kontact crash on me.

        @all the haters: Yes, new features are often a bit unstable. Yes, KDE seem to make things 'default' before they're ready (but at least let you turn it off). But at least the KDE devs bother to improve things (plasma-desktop, dolphin, rekonq, akonadi) until they work, rather than giving up on them instantly or leaving them broken forever...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by FLHerne View Post
          But at least the KDE devs bother to improve things (plasma-desktop, dolphin, rekonq, akonadi) until they work, rather than giving up on them instantly or leaving them broken forever...
          I disagree... that's exactly what they do, and not only for nepomuk : kde 4 has been broken since the beginning and they leave it broken :-(

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Redi44 View Post
            KDE 4.10 will be a very nice release, the only thing I'm still missing is a good RAW editor....
            RAW? What about Darktable for example? There are quite a lot around of them, recently the German pro-linux had an article about them with a comparison.

            All that semantic-desktop stuff... I don't use it, I don't like it. Also file indexing in the past was buggy and slow and ate way too many resources. Improvements are welcome but I still hate these binaries on my disk. And it's hard to build KDE with USE="-semantic-desktop". Something will normally always complain.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by orzel View Post
              I disagree... that's exactly what they do, and not only for nepomuk : kde 4 has been broken since the beginning and they leave it broken :-(
              I certainly wouldn't dispute that it was broken to start with (KDE 4.0 crashed every time I added a widget...) but I don't see where you're coming from when you say it still is. It's been mostly stable for me since 4.4, and I've had literally no trouble whatosever with 4.8 or 4.9 (no crashes, no lag, few confusing misfeatures...). Perhaps there's some reason it works better than average here, but the amount of difference there'd have to be to call it 'broken' is rather substantial. Would you mind stating what you find broken?

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              • #37
                I think it needs content-aware indexing, i.e. don't index files that contain no "searchable" information.

                My problem is that I sometimes have huge text files floating aroundin my home directory or somewhere. It may be germany.osm, so I would manually exclude *.osm. But then I would do something with it and I would end up with germany.txt and Nepomuk would again index it. Or I end up with somethingbig.json. So nepomuk could recognize that there is no "readable" text (less than X% match any dictionary entries) combined with the fact that the files are several gigabytes in size and not index it.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by orzel View Post
                  it's KDE stuff. They keep on merging whatever crap is being written without ANY QA, even basic.
                  I suggest you piss of to some GNOME, Trinity, or Xfce forum to spread your lies. Maybe someone will believe you there…

                  Btw: It's obvious that you actually love KDE. If you didn't like it, you'd not even read stories about it,let alone comment on them…

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                    Btw: It's obvious that you actually love KDE. If you didn't like it, you'd not even read stories about it,let alone comment on them…
                    Absolutely, and I'm not ashamed of it. Those that don't love KDE will not waste time complaining about it. They will just go away and be done.

                    Though you will understand that I would rather use a past tense. I've used and loved KDE since before 1.0 was out. I was impressed not only as a user, but also as a developer. At the time, design decisions, overall code quality and "user caring" was so high, especially compared to lot of other free software. The only other (Free) project I would dare comparing it was the linux kernel. Then it went wrong and I kept on using it and reporting bugs. Then kde 4 went out and I kept doing so. Then 4.1, then 4.2 and the KDE team kept on focusing on themselves ("us as a communauty") and on adding even more buggy stuff, rather than fixing the mess. Oh, and to keep on arguing that KDE 4.0 was not the failure it was.
                    I dont remember exactly at which version i gave up, but it was probably 4.4 or 4.5. Since then, I only have to deal with lot of KDE installations on computers all around me, but my own computers dont use it.

                    My main work with KDE today, is to kill Nepomuk to "fix" those computers, to recommend people not to use anything plasma related, and to be very very sorry for all the problems they report and to which i can't do anything.
                    I often have to remove all kwin effects, for example. But I agree that this question is tricky and is mostly about graphics drivers support on linux, so I dont complain much about it. I rant a little about enabling it by default even on known-to-be-bad graphic drivers.. but it's rather minor compared to all other huge problems in KDE.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by orzel View Post
                      My main work with KDE today, is to kill Nepomuk to "fix" those computers, to recommend people not to use anything plasma related, and to be very very sorry for all the problems they report and to which i can't do anything.
                      I often have to remove all kwin effects, for example. But I agree that this question is tricky and is mostly about graphics drivers support on linux, so I dont complain much about it. I rant a little about enabling it by default even on known-to-be-bad graphic drivers.. but it's rather minor compared to all other huge problems in KDE.
                      How can you use a KDE desktop but not use anything plasma related?
                      And kwin usually knows about driver bugs: It disables certain features known to be broken with ceratin hardware/driver.

                      (currently on gnome3 - was sick of solid making my optical drive spin up again and again on every new file dialog&dolphin instance. Just to realise that they finally managed to fix this issue for 4.10 - if you use the udisks2-backend...
                      This bug took YEARS to get fixed, and when it finally was nobody mentioned that in the report...)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                        How can you use a KDE desktop but not use anything plasma related?
                        You remove every plasmoid your distro has installed by default, and you dont install any new. This boost your average time between crashes and prevent memory use to explode. And of course, you kill Amarok, but plasma is not the only reason why.

                        Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                        And kwin usually knows about driver bugs: It disables certain features known to be broken with ceratin hardware/driver.
                        Yes, i know it's supposed to. But it kinda fail somehow as I have to disable it manually on lot of computers (middle-end usually). I'm not sure why, but i think the "black list" of kwin is about buggy/unsupported drivers. The problem on my users'computers is rather that it slows down the computer like hell, even though there's no obvious 'bug' with opengl.

                        Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                        This bug took YEARS to get fixed, and when it finally was nobody mentioned that in the report...)
                        Did i mention total lack of QA in KDE ?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by orzel View Post
                          Did i mention total lack of QA in KDE ?
                          KDE has a QA Team and a Extra Mile Initiative and I would say that they are doing pretty good job nowadays. There hasn't been major bugs that would have affected me in 4.x.0 in a long time and even the first betas are usually working fine but if that isn't enough KDE releases five bug fix releases for every major version.


                          I think there's something seriously wrong with your distribution if Plasma, Amarok and Nepomuk are crashing or "exploding". I remember Nepomuk crashing in some beta year or two back, Plasma used to crash in the 4.3 times but after that and Amarok has never crashed for me, I think. I'm sure you have reported those bugs for your distribution/KDE?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by orzel View Post
                            You remove every plasmoid your distro has installed by default, and you dont install any new. This boost your average time between crashes and prevent memory use to explode. And of course, you kill Amarok, but plasma is not the only reason why.
                            Quite random action which may hit the "bad boy"
                            memory usage:
                            - Don't show events in the calendar (needs to configure any clock on your desktop!): this prevents akonadi from starting (and with that mysql...). In the same way disable contact runners from KRunner (+ several others you don't need)
                            - remove anything python-related: no printer applet (forces python2.7! if you have python3.2 configured as your default you may end up with both versions (+PyKDE4-packages!) getting loaded), no python-runners

                            This should also "fix" startup time.

                            The problem on my users'computers is rather that it slows down the computer like hell, even though there's no obvious 'bug' with opengl.
                            Probably tuning kwin might help:
                            * change the scale method (kwin desktop effects -> advanced-tab)
                            * disable blur effect!
                            * probably disable translucency effect, but that one should not hurt.

                            I am running kwin on a quite old pre-coregpu (~10 years old) without any problems.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
                              Probably tuning kwin might help.
                              I dont wanna tune every computer i'm supposed to manage. But thanks for the hints on how to make KDE usable, that will probably help people still trying.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Teho View Post
                                KDE has a QA Team and a Extra Mile Initiative and I would say that they are doing pretty good job nowadays.
                                They do. What i meant was that buggy stuff keeps on being merged and bugs keep on being piled on the bugtracker. Or, if you prefer, they might be the 'structure', but it fails doing its job.

                                Originally posted by Teho View Post
                                There hasn't been major bugs that would have affected me in 4.x.0 in a long time and even the first betas are usually working fine but if that isn't enough KDE releases five bug fix releases for every major version.
                                KDE has a release plan that they honor it, but as almost nothing is being fixed on the stable branches, minor releases are almost empty. Just make a diff for a minor release, remove all the obvious/paperwork stuff such as renaming version strings and check what remains. Those are mostly identical versions.[/QUOTE]

                                Originally posted by Teho View Post
                                I think there's something seriously wrong with your distribution if Plasma, Amarok and Nepomuk are crashing or "exploding".
                                I keep on reading this excuse "it's distro fault". But as said, those bugs are uniform among distribution. I see this around me on the computers i administer, and you can easily check on forums/trackers for different distributions how the problems are uniform.

                                My point of view is that it must be a real pain for distribution to handle all KDE bugs reported by users. It adds a lot of work for them just to triage them. I'm not sure how many distributions actually try to fix KDE (my wild guess: mostly opensuse?), but if they do, it must require a HUGE lot of ressources.

                                Originally posted by Teho View Post
                                I'm sure you have reported those bugs for your distribution/KDE?
                                I did lost a lot of time carefully reporting bugs with details and so, but none were fixed, most were ignored, and few of them were just denied. I've stopped reporting bugs to KDE when i stopped using it.

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