Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fedora Proposal To Use Cinnamon Desktop By Default

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by finalzone View Post
    Alernate gnome shell if users cannot remember which app:
    Super key (or slide to top left or click Activities) -> type keyword category like image -> Select apps (for example gimp)
    Alernate Cinnamon if users cannot remember which app:
    Super key (or click Menu) -> type keyword category like image -> Select apps (for example gimp)


    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
    That example is vague because it does not describe if the apps are open or started. On gnome shell:
    super key for overview and select the current open app you want.
    True, under gnome shell if the app is already open there's an extra step. Right click.

    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
    Visually, trying to click on a task bar (smaller in some case) is a matter to guessing with several open apps.
    Trying to tell multiple terminals or browser windows apart in Gnome Shell is just as hard. With both you're going to end up identifying based on the title of the window.

    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
    Remember the way to open an application varies from individuals. You can easily assign your frequently used apps on the dasher (dock located on the left)
    You can add favorite apps to the panel in Cinnamon, still faster since you don't have to open the overlay.
    Last edited by thalaric; 01-28-2013, 02:51 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by thalaric View Post
      Alernate Cinnamon if users cannot remember which app:
      Super key (or click Menu) -> type keyword category like image -> Select apps (for example gimp)
      Basically inherited from Gnome Shell Cinnamon is based from.

      True, under gnome shell if the app is already open there's an extra step. Right click.
      You forgot middle-click on current open app which will open a new window, dragging an app icon to the empty overview in current workspace or another.


      Trying to tell multiple terminals or browser windows apart in Gnome Shell is just as hard. At least with the taskbar you have part of the title to go on.
      Each window has a title underneath enough to know with one you wish to use. The taskbar easily becomes cluttered leading to the difficulty to distinguish windows app. You will need more skill to accurately hit own bar .



      You can add favorite apps to the panel in Cinnamon, still faster since you don't have to open the overlay.
      Exactly how fast?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by thalaric View Post
        Because that isn't the workflow.

        Opening Apps
        Gnome Shell: 1) slide to top left, 2) slide to mode change, 3) click, 4) find application in app list or categories
        Cinnamon: 1) slide to bottom menu 2) click 3) find application in app list or categories

        Switching Apps
        Gnome Shell: 1) slide to top left 2) slide to big icon 3) click
        Cinnamon: 1) slide to taskbar icon 2) click

        There is a clear winner here as far as time and effort involved.
        Look, we can argue the finer details of each window manager all day long and it won't really matter.
        Fact is, that for me personally, Gnome-Shell works better/faster than any other desktop I've tried so far.
        You might have a different opinion, and that is fine. It is however not some kind of universal fact.

        Edit: I remembered you don't have to click to open the overlay, which is actually a detriment because it's always triggering on accident.
        Accidently trigger the overlay is the only gripe I have with GS. I believe this is scheduled to be fixed with XInput2(?).

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kigurai View Post
          Look, we can argue the finer details of each window manager all day long and it won't really matter.
          Fact is, that for me personally, Gnome-Shell works better/faster than any other desktop I've tried so far.
          You might have a different opinion, and that is fine. It is however not some kind of universal fact.
          Sure, some people will prefer doing things in a less efficient manner. That is fine. For me, it comes down to the desktop. On my 21" screen I have a bunch of prime real estate available, and gnome shell doesn't use any of it to make my life easier. They've moved everything out into the overlay and removed support for allowing nautilus to control the desktop. I'm left with a completely empty inefficient blue wallpaper with a top bar that doesn't do anything.

          I'm all for new innovations when they give some kind of advantage, GS isn't it though.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by finalzone View Post
            Basically inherited from Gnome Shell Cinnamon is based from.
            Exactly, Cinnamon makes Gnome3 technology useful again.

            Originally posted by finalzone View Post
            The taskbar easily becomes cluttered leading to the difficulty to distinguish windows app. You will need more skill to accurately hit own bar .
            This is a problem with large amounts of windows open, and the traditional fix is application grouping. Personally I prefer it without grouping to save a click since I usually don't have over 10 windows open on each workspace.

            Originally posted by finalzone View Post
            Exactly how fast?
            Faster.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by thalaric View Post
              Sure, some people will prefer doing things in a less efficient manner. That is fine. For me, it comes down to the desktop. On my 21" screen I have a bunch of prime real estate available, and gnome shell doesn't use any of it to make my life easier. They've moved everything out into the overlay and removed support for allowing nautilus to control the desktop. I'm left with a completely empty inefficient blue wallpaper with a top bar that doesn't do anything.

              I'm all for new innovations when they give some kind of advantage, GS isn't it though.
              Here are Shell extensions which give you a taskbar:

              - Dash-to-Dock (highly recommended)
              - Taskbar

              And here's - How to enable Desktop Icons.


              The main productivity thing I love about Gnome-Shell (and it's kin: Cinnamon & Gala), is dynamic activity management. I'm a visually minded person, so keeping things spatially separate really helps me categorize my work. It makes me more productive, and less frustrated. Sometimes I'll have 5-8 difference activities open, so having dynamic activities which scale to my needs on-demand is key.

              That's not to say Gnome-Shell doesn't have it's flaws and short-comings. It does. However, I don't think "productivity" is one of them. I get very frustrated with Windows these days cause I can't separate tasks well (or middle-click-push windows), and fixed-count-activity DE's like Unity/Xfce/etc feel much more restricted.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                Gnome devs: Do as the users say. Make things customizable, since not all users have the same workflow. Stop with the branding bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
                I've suggested that you go to FOSDEM before. The conference is upcoming weekend. Assume you'll attend?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by thalaric View Post
                  They've moved everything out into the overlay and removed support for allowing nautilus to control the desktop.
                  What do you mean? Nautilus can still render a desktop. The only plan is to move that code from Nautilus into a new component (for Unity). The plan is that GNOME shell will draw the background directly, that might cause issues with Nautilus showing its stuff on top (maybe yes, maybe no), but it will still work under any other desktop.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    No, I don't think that they should not change, they should. But it has always been their stated goal to be THE desktop for everyone (after killing KDE). They did a lot of politics to get into that position. This would be a very large departure from this plan.

                    In any case, the days of the desktop dichotomy are over. Now we have 4-5 good contenders in KDE, GNOME, Xfce, Unity and Cinnamon. And, of course the "WM+launcher+apps" crowd which will always be a significant factor on the Linux desktop.
                    Fully quoting because I only want to add a little bit and quoting only a small part likely distorts what you said.

                    During 1.x days there was indeed a time that KDE should not be needed. That was when GNOME was small and Qt was not LGPL licenced. The goal is still to be a really useable desktop. However, killing KDE is not part of this. Freedesktop.org was created many years ago to work together across desktops to ensure we do things in a standard way. The only reason freedesktop.org works is because people want it to work (some people think freedesktop.org somehow can enforce things). Obviously people developing GNOME are mainly interested in GNOME, but that's pretty logical.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bkor View Post
                      What do you mean? Nautilus can still render a desktop. The only plan is to move that code from Nautilus into a new component (for Unity). The plan is that GNOME shell will draw the background directly, that might cause issues with Nautilus showing its stuff on top (maybe yes, maybe no), but it will still work under any other desktop.
                      I don't believe that they are moving any code into Gnome Shell. Their minimalist approach to the desktop does not allow it to do anything useful like contain icons or widgets. I'm glad you can change a registry setting to reenable nautilus mode, but that remains unsupported by gnome. From Vim_User's link:

                      André Klapper [developer] wrote on 2012-03-22 15:29:14 UTC (In reply to
                      comment #25):

                      > Is the nautilus desktop abandoned?

                      Sure [it is], as gnome-shell has been the default GNOME desktop interface for a year now and having Nautilus render the desktop is disabled by default.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by kigurai View Post
                        And I have seen exactly 0 of these polls. I doubt the rest of the people at my department that happily use GNOME3 have seen them either.
                        Most users are happily unaware of the pletora of different forums that exist.
                        The same poll can get vastly different results depending on where and who you ask. Your links is actually a good example of that.
                        For example, check the poll numbers for Cinnamon in your Arch link compared to the Mint link. Given these, is Cinnamon really really popular, or irrelevant?
                        To answer your stupidity: polls are actually correct, because percentage clearly shows gnome lost compared to other environments. To answer your stupidity more: most KDE, XFCE and Cinnamon users are unaware of pletora of different forums that exist. Now, you've got to show me polls where gnome is more popular. Check gnome numbers in Arch and Mint and tell me what don't you understand?

                        And since when is Fedora not a major distribution?
                        Since always, strawman. The point was it's a bastion of gnome and percentage of gnome users in Fedora is quite small.

                        As for GNOME devs listening to critics. I see plenty of stuff that has changed due to user feedback (recent GNOME classic is one example).
                        Ignoring critique that goes against the overall vision of the project is a good thing. You just happen to believe it is a bad thing since you don't like the vision.
                        I for one think it is great that there is some kind of vision.
                        They don't listen to users and this is also a fact that you even confirmed. So, they're some kind of sect with some strange vision? Ignoring smart critique just to follow some idiotic vision is well... idiotic.

                        No, they were criticized a lot for fixing "problems that did not exist", and for "regressions/missing features".
                        Like what?

                        Note that I agree that there was some features that went missing when you upgraded from GNOME 2.32 to 3.0. But they have crept back and current version is actually just awesome.
                        Nope and they keep removing features - Nautilus. Current version is just a joke.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                          Nah, you just make shit up. Let's see…

                          http://pollator.com/polls/which-linu...-are-you-using

                          Gnome 3, Unity, and Xfce are practically tied on 2nd place.
                          Cinnamon is only available via the "Other" option which means that any claim of Cinnamon being more popular than Gnome 3 is unfounded.

                          http://forums.opensuse.org/english/o...pplicable.html

                          Gnome is #2 with more than twice as many votes as Xfce.

                          http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopi...0787&start=360
                          This is the only listed poll in which Gnome 3 does not occupy one of the top spots. Considering it's Mint, it's not surprising. Gnome 3 still beat Unity, btw.

                          http://www.muktware.com/articles/351...op-environment

                          Gnome 3 is #2.

                          http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ts&pollid=1955
                          Gnome 3 is far in front of Cinnamon, Unity, MATE,…

                          https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=85535&p=39
                          Outdated version of that poll. Gnome 3 is on #3 spot in both the outdated and the current one, though.
                          No one even voted for Unity or Cinnamon so far.

                          http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=284463
                          And still Gnome 3 is #1 here.

                          If your links to polls made a point, then to make KDE’s Plasma Desktop default and drop Cinnamon because no one except the Mint crowd seems to actually care and Xfce established itself as alternative for followers of Gnome's traditional UI. The polls also are evidence that Gnome 3 is actually well received, ranking among the top spots.
                          Nice fail. Gnome loses in every poll here. There's no officially supported Unity in Arch and I guess the same is true for Cinnamon.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by thalaric View Post
                            For the love of all that is holy will you people please stop using keybindings to attack a strawman? Gnome Shell's ability to be controlled by the keyboard is excellent, no one ever disputed that. It's directly inspired by Gnome-Do, so people who enjoy working that way can do it on any gnome based desktop, G2, GS, Cinnamon, Mate, Consort, etc. Not to mention that Cinnamon has this built in. You are not adding to this conversation about graphical GUI's, you are detracting from it. Your keyboard does not change so why is your key combo relevant? Can we please discuss the material differences between GS and other desktops, i.e, the overlay and lack of taskbar?
                            Take a deep breath and read my post again.
                            I answered intellivision about something like krunner - supposedly used in a keyboard centered workflow - vs launching applications via a full screen launcher. My answer is that a properly done full screen launcher is as good as a top bar for such job. The same is true of gnome-do and can be true of searchable menu systems like in cinnamon or other environments.
                            I did not write anything about Gnome shell being specifically faster than any of the other good options, nor did I set up any straw man.
                            What I did say is that the design of the application launcher as a full screen interface makes sense for an intrinsically disrupting operation such as starting a new application. On the other hand someone finds gnome shell's overview too distracting as a task switcher. I can't really say how much of that is simply the habit of having a task bar, but I'm glad they are getting one with official support in 3.8
                            I don't know who you're assigning to your mythical "you people" group, but you're barking under the wrong tree here. I'm simply interested in UI design, whatever OS and DE I can find useful ideas in.
                            Last edited by eliac; 01-28-2013, 05:14 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by thalaric View Post
                              I don't believe that they are moving any code into Gnome Shell. Their minimalist approach to the desktop does not allow it to do anything useful like contain icons or widgets. I'm glad you can change a registry setting to reenable nautilus mode, but that remains unsupported by gnome. From Vim_User's link:
                              I think you read my reply a bit too quickly, I said a new component, not that it would move to GNOME shell.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                                They don't listen to users and this is also a fact that you even confirmed. So, they're some kind of sect with some strange vision? Ignoring smart critique just to follow some idiotic vision is well... idiotic.
                                This is a forum, so listening is a bit difficult of course.

                                However, I am involved in GNOME and I read these forums as well as other sites. I read, reply, try to see what problems people have. Please don't ignore that I do this! :P

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X