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KDE 4.10 Desktop Delayed Into February

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  • #51
    I use KDE as work and at home. I've considered changing to i3 but there are just so many useful features to KDE (especially on a multi monitor system)... I'll admit I was a bit more enthusiastic about the DE back in KDE 3.5.10, but now I don't think I'd look back all that much.

    I'd hope that the KDE team would consider another rewrite in the future. I think they have the right talent to create something that is high performance and truly minimalist, but also, modular and full featured. Plasma, while very responsive on newer hardware, "feels" a little heavy regardless. (I'm pretty excited about the RazorQT project)

    One thing I wonder why they didn't do was porting KIO to FUSE or something. There are lots of great KIO plugins that would be more useful if they were transparent to the application.

    Also: Anyone else find the keyboard/mouse bindings available in KWin not even close to as functional as Compiz?

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    • #52
      Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
      Not for 4.10. It was initially hoped that Akregator makes it (which is why it's in the Feature Plan) but didn't make it.
      Indeed, that's why I used (very) clumsy wording. Apologies for that.
      Love kde's philosophy that programs use one codebase, modules and concepts and using as daily driver on work and at home.
      Yep, gotta love kioslaves and kparts. I was really impressed (and confused) when once my konqueror morphed into korganizer.
      Although kioslaves have a big drawback : they're not usable outside the KDE environment (try opening an sftp/fish file from dolphin in vlc). AFAIK (haven't tried) GVFS enables that, as does fuse. But it's being worked on for Frameworks 5!

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Serafean View Post
        Indeed, that's why I used (very) clumsy wording. Apologies for that.

        Yep, gotta love kioslaves and kparts. I was really impressed (and confused) when once my konqueror morphed into korganizer.
        Although kioslaves have a big drawback : they're not usable outside the KDE environment (try opening an sftp/fish file from dolphin in vlc). AFAIK (haven't tried) GVFS enables that, as does fuse. But it's being worked on for Frameworks 5!
        KIOslaves/GVFS is something that really should be desktop-agnostic at this point, like dbus. It's mature technology and any app, including console apps should be able to do this.

        I guess that a major reason for keeping KIO is the cross-platform nature of KDE. Although putting this logic into FUSE would only affect Windows, I believe.

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        • #54
          Hmm, actually, I wonder how this will affect openSUSE 12.3. They thought it would be good enough to jump over 4.9 to 4.10 immediately, as it's quite mature already. But a delay in release might affect their plans. But then they still have plenty of time until the release of 12.3.

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          • #55
            It looks like the openSUSE 12.3 pre-release freeze starts on Feb 5, while the KDE 4.10 release is Feb 6. However, openSUSE 12.3 has had KDE SC 4.10 pre-releases in openSUSE 12.3 for a while now, and the tagging is Jan 30th, so I doubt it is a problem. I'll check to make sure, though.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
              Thank you so much

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              • #57
                Originally posted by phoen1x View Post
                So... when he says KDE is dead he is troll, when u say gnome 3 is shit u are right? Funny.
                It seems you're missing an obvious thing here: KDE is not dead, so he's lying and trolling. If gnome is shit or not it's just a subjective opinion. However, it can be proven easily Gnome 3 is worse than KDE, Cinnamon and so on.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
                  I use KDE as work and at home. I've considered changing to i3 but there are just so many useful features to KDE (especially on a multi monitor system)... I'll admit I was a bit more enthusiastic about the DE back in KDE 3.5.10, but now I don't think I'd look back all that much.

                  I'd hope that the KDE team would consider another rewrite in the future. I think they have the right talent to create something that is high performance and truly minimalist, but also, modular and full featured. Plasma, while very responsive on newer hardware, "feels" a little heavy regardless. (I'm pretty excited about the RazorQT project)

                  One thing I wonder why they didn't do was porting KIO to FUSE or something. There are lots of great KIO plugins that would be more useful if they were transparent to the application.
                  Well one, KDE is just freelance open source developers. They don't have the manpower for a grounds up rewrite when they are this deep in. They aren't even going to rewrite KDM for Wayland, they are just going to port the old manager. Hopefully moving to Wayland helps KDE shave some latent bloat, since the X server is a large source of that nowadays.

                  I agree with making KIO a fuse fs. I am a recent KDE convert, but one of my bigger issues with the project is the consistent ideology of "if it exists outside of the qt / kde environment, reinvent the wheel and rebuild it". I agree with the overall stance that as a development ecosystem qt / C++ / QML is drastically superior to Gnome / GTK / C, but it really divides the Linux desktop with all their personal reimplementations of core features.

                  Also: Anyone else find the keyboard/mouse bindings available in KWin not even close to as functional as Compiz?
                  I started out feeling this, but it is I think a case of bad defaults. The keyboard binds aren't as comprhensive stock, even though almost all the gnome keybinds functionality is available. For example, by default the media keys aren't activated, even though KWin has no problem recognizing them, and I was easily able to bind volume control in Veromix.

                  And just as a contrast to most of this thread, I recently switched from Unity / XFCE / etc after some soul searching to KDE, just because it is a complete platform. Everywhere else there was something I was missing (good notifications in xfce, customization in Gnome / Unity of layout, etc) that KDE has just by nature of being the kitchen sink. It also runs really well I feel when I disable a bunch of the default compositing options and make sure vertical sync + opengl composting are enabled.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by zanny View Post
                    Well one, KDE is just freelance open source developers.
                    No, not really. While the relative amount of full-time employed KDE developers is rather small, they do exist.

                    Originally posted by zanny View Post
                    They don't have the manpower for a grounds up rewrite when they are this deep in. They aren't even going to rewrite KDM for Wayland, they are just going to port the old manager.
                    So LightDM-KDE does not exist?

                    Originally posted by zanny View Post
                    I am a recent KDE convert, but one of my bigger issues with the project is the consistent ideology of "if it exists outside of the qt / kde environment, reinvent the wheel and rebuild it".
                    And as a recent “convert” you suddenly obtained all knowledge about KDE?
                    Your claim is absolutely false and I can easily prove it: https://projects.kde.org/oxygen-gtk
                    Not only is there lots of KDE software directly using GNOME’s glib, older attempts to recreate e.g. GIMP have long vanished. (Krita moved to become a digital painting application instead.)
                    KDE’s current approach is to either integrate GTK applications as well as possible via Oxygen-GTK or to write a KDE front-end on an existing back-end (as with LightDM, NetworkManager, PackageKit, etc.)
                    In fact the main reason why there is no broad push for a KDE web browser (Konqueror and Rekonq are basically one-man shows these days) is that most KDE devs simply use Firefox or Chrome.

                    Originally posted by zanny View Post
                    I started out feeling this, but it is I think a case of bad defaults.
                    Defaults are the responsibility of the distributor.

                    Originally posted by zanny View Post
                    For example, by default the media keys aren't activated, even though KWin has no problem recognizing them, and I was easily able to bind volume control in Veromix.
                    That's because the current keyboard shortcut implementation is lacking and IIRC cannot easily be fixed without breaking binary compatibility. I believe it’s on the agenda to be fixed in KF5. The current implementation can’t handle two alternatives for global shortcuts. Therefore a default that works also with keyboards without multimedia keys is chosen.
                    Again: Distributors can change such defaults to target a specialized user group (e.g. one that has a higher likelihood of owning such keyboards).

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by zanny View Post
                      I agree with making KIO a fuse fs. I am a recent KDE convert, but one of my bigger issues with the project is the consistent ideology of "if it exists outside of the qt / kde environment, reinvent the wheel and rebuild it". I agree with the overall stance that as a development ecosystem qt / C++ / QML is drastically superior to Gnome / GTK / C, but it really divides the Linux desktop with all their personal reimplementations of core features.
                      What specific examples are you referring to? For most of the examples I have seen people list the KDE version actually came first.

                      For example, as far as I have been able to determine KIO predates FUSE by at least 3 years. Similarly KOffice predates openOffice.org, konqueror predates firefox, khtml predates gecko (and webkit is a fork of khtml), and nepomuk predates tracker.

                      The only major example I am aware of where KDE re-implemented something that was already available was with kwin's compositor vs. compiz, and all the problems compiz faced until Ubuntu took them over demonstrated that was a good decision. Of course there may be some third-party projects that created a KDE implementation of an existing piece of software, but it doesn't appear to be any more common than with other toolkits.
                      Last edited by TheBlackCat; 01-03-2013, 11:52 PM.

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