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Views Expressed Over The Health Of GTK+

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  • #16
    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
    I can find nothing offensive, antagonistic, or hostile about Otte's posts there. As a primary GTK+ maintainer, he said it's not his priority, and did so without any rudeness, in any of the several comments of his on that page. That's it.
    I asked someone else about this and they thought he was being... "unfriendly"... as well. I don't know how you interact with people but I wouldn't go onto another's blog and accuse them of doing things "the Phoronix way". That seemed like it was pretty clearly intended to be an insult (no offense, Michael).

    This post sounds a bit like “Hey look, I ran a simple command that showed things are slow. Why is nobody doing anything about it?!” aka the Phoronix way of talking about software.
    I personally don’t consider my login time anything worth working on. There’s so many more important things to be working on, like for example getting GNOME to run on an iPhone (or at least a Samsung Galaxy) with software that’s superior to what’s running there now. When that’s done, I might look into your performance issues.
    I thought I'd post the above for anyone interested.

    What was really funny was that Benjamin then made the completely reasonable argument about developer resources but made the mistake of thinking that everyone else thinks as he does about start-up times. In particular that Jean-Francois wouldn't spend his time getting pitivi to start faster. To which Benjamin found the contrary to be the case.

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    • #17
      Oh please support Qt styles with future versions of GTK...... it is so silly to have to use oxygen-gtk to have same look apps.... well or a gtk style on both Qt and gtk...... which is strange in KDE. The opposite is very welcome . And thank you very much to oxygen-gtk authors, they changes my KDE experience, really.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by srg_13 View Post
        The theme API changes each version? Yawn...

        Seriously, it will stabilise eventually. Without these changes, we wouldn't have some of the best features (like the new Cairo stuff and CSS styles). These developers sound like they'd rather hack on a 1990s desktop than actually try and make something the least bit modern.
        WTF? Stabilize eventually? Without breakage why can't have shiny new things? What a load of shit.

        GTK+ 3.0 was released around ~Feb 2011. In 2 days we will be in 2013. That's almost 2 years of constant breakage on every damn release!

        You need to intruduce breakage and do a complete overhaul. Totally fine. That's what 3.0 is supposed to be for! 3.0 introduces breakage with 2.x, but the rest of the 3.x serious should not have any more breakage. You should be compatible going forward until several years down the line when you go to 4.x.

        Nearly 2 years of breakage, instability and utter lack of documenting the changes is absurd.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by n3wu53r View Post
          WTF? Stabilize eventually? Without breakage why can't have shiny new things? What a load of shit.

          GTK+ 3.0 was released around ~Feb 2011. In 2 days we will be in 2013. That's almost 2 years of constant breakage on every damn release!

          You need to intruduce breakage and do a complete overhaul. Totally fine. That's what 3.0 is supposed to be for! 3.0 introduces breakage with 2.x, but the rest of the 3.x serious should not have any more breakage. You should be compatible going forward until several years down the line when you go to 4.x.

          Nearly 2 years of breakage, instability and utter lack of documenting the changes is absurd.
          The default theme works great here. Stable and fine. Judging by the few maintenance related git commits and few bug reports I would say you are the incompetent part, not the g-devs.
          https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cg...hemes-standard
          http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/

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          • #20

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            • #21
              Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
              The default theme works great here. Stable and fine. Judging by the few maintenance related git commits and few bug reports I would say you are the incompetent part, not the g-devs.
              https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cg...hemes-standard
              http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/
              Well, the default theme is probably one of the few that get updated with each release anyway. I think the guy was complaining about third party developers that are left updating their themes for each point release.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                Well, the default theme is probably one of the few that get updated with each release anyway. I think the guy was complaining about third party developers that are left updating their themes for each point release.
                Go read the commit log. The default theme is not some kind of magic code immune to code changes. I would say the maintenance burden from "changes made med the evil gnome-devs" might be real but it is rather light. what we got here is not evil gnome-devs but incompetent "software is hard lets go shopping" themers. No wonder gnome decided not to support a billion themes since the maintainers arent up for the task. Hell I cant think of any themers actually using the gnome infrastructure to gain maximum support and awareness from the gnome community.

                Fuck themers!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
                  Go read the commit log. The default theme is not some kind of magic code immune to code changes. I would say the maintenance burden from "changes made med the evil gnome-devs" might be real but it is rather light. what we got here is not evil gnome-devs but incompetent "software is hard lets go shopping" themers. No wonder gnome decided not to support a billion themes since the maintainers arent up for the task. Hell I cant think of any themers actually using the gnome infrastructure to gain maximum support and awareness from the gnome community.

                  Fuck themers!
                  But that's just the thing, "themers" don't have to adjust their work for every point release. GTK+ developers should have the ability to plan ahead and once a major release is out, everything should be set in stone. Point releases can fix bugs and add features, but not change existing API. What the GTK+ developers are doing is poor quality code. The kind that drives developers away.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
                    Go read the commit log. The default theme is not some kind of magic code immune to code changes. I would say the maintenance burden from "changes made med the evil gnome-devs" might be real but it is rather light. what we got here is not evil gnome-devs but incompetent "software is hard lets go shopping" themers.
                    Themers are designers, not programmers, and the maintenance burden for themers is currently very high, because not only does the way theming works change all the time, but apparently there is also almost zero documentation about those changes.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JanC View Post
                      Themers are designers, not programmers, and the maintenance burden for themers is currently very high, because not only does the way theming works change all the time, but apparently there is also almost zero documentation about those changes.
                      Well nobody asks the themers to do the job and gnome does not endorse it. If the themers feel it is such a hard task they shouldnt target 3.x.0 releases but 3.x.1 or 3.x.2. Problem solved.

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