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  • New Features Coming Up For PulseAudio 3.0

    Phoronix: New Features Coming Up For PulseAudio 3.0

    The release of PulseAudio 3.0 is imminent and here's an overview of the features coming up for this debated sound server...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTI0OTk

  • #2
    The FUNDAMENTAL flaw in PulseAudio

    PulseAudio may be the greatest thing since sliced bread in many respects, but here is one place where it FAILS TOTALLY:

    From their web site:

    ---

    You are expected to know your way around if you use system mode. You are using PA against the explicit recommendations of the maintainers, so don't expect particularly enthusiastic support from them in doing so.

    ---

    HELLO! They should put PulseAudio EVERYWHERE. It should be in your TV and your headphones and your speakers and your MP3 player. I have NO IDEA how PulseAudio is going to succeed if the developers have this DUMB mind-set.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
      PulseAudio may be the greatest thing since sliced bread in many respects, but here is one place where it FAILS TOTALLY:

      From their web site:

      ---

      You are expected to know your way around if you use system mode. You are using PA against the explicit recommendations of the maintainers, so don't expect particularly enthusiastic support from them in doing so.

      ---

      HELLO! They should put PulseAudio EVERYWHERE. It should be in your TV and your headphones and your speakers and your MP3 player. I have NO IDEA how PulseAudio is going to succeed if the developers have this DUMB mind-set.
      Are you volunteering to offer support for "PulseAudio EVERYWHERE"?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
        PulseAudio may be the greatest thing since sliced bread in many respects, but here is one place where it FAILS TOTALLY:

        From their web site:

        ---

        You are expected to know your way around if you use system mode. You are using PA against the explicit recommendations of the maintainers, so don't expect particularly enthusiastic support from them in doing so.

        ---

        HELLO! They should put PulseAudio EVERYWHERE. It should be in your TV and your headphones and your speakers and your MP3 player. I have NO IDEA how PulseAudio is going to succeed if the developers have this DUMB mind-set.
        And what exactly is "system mode"?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
          And what exactly is "system mode"?
          in system mode it runs as a system level daemon instead of a user level process. This allows it to accept connections from multiple users (without handing sound between multiple PA instances) but introduces security issues and the like. It is meant for embedded or single user systems, and is strongly discouraged for general desktop use.

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          • #6
            Thought so. In which case it's quite clear why it's not supported and frowned upon...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ShadowBane View Post
              in system mode it runs as a system level daemon instead of a user level process. This allows it to accept connections from multiple users (without handing sound between multiple PA instances) but introduces security issues and the like. It is meant for embedded or single user systems, and is strongly discouraged for general desktop use.
              If you've ever looked at the pulse.conf files, its under the flag "daemonize." WebOS ran Pulse in "system mode" and I always had the impression (still have my HP Touchpad, Fire Sale model) that THATS why the Audio was so flaky because Pulse on desktop is fine but Pulse in system mode is a mess. Not sure why they ever ran it in system mode either... because you didnt run WebOS as root unless you turned on developer mode so a normal pulse setup shouldve been fine.

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              • #8
                Working fine in system mode on my Raspberry Pi…

                Moving on from that odd diversion (PA doesn't seem to be "failing totally" so far, and it's not like development has stalled), I wonder why the article summary includes the word "debated"? Seems like a wealth of adjectives could have been used there, and I thought we as a community were beyond blaming all issues on (Ubuntu's terrible implementation of) Pulseaudio?

                Show me some other free software for GNU/Linux that lets me seamlessly and independently flip different audio streams between headphones, bluetooth and network audio devices with a nice GUI and I'll legally get "Pulseaudio Sucks" tattooed across my forehead. Until then, calling it names seems a little pointless…

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                  If you've ever looked at the pulse.conf files, its under the flag "daemonize." WebOS ran Pulse in "system mode" and I always had the impression (still have my HP Touchpad, Fire Sale model) that THATS why the Audio was so flaky because Pulse on desktop is fine but Pulse in system mode is a mess. Not sure why they ever ran it in system mode either... because you didnt run WebOS as root unless you turned on developer mode so a normal pulse setup shouldve been fine.
                  Not at all - the system mode shouldn't make any difference to the sound quality. It's simply that running in that mode is a bad idea for security reasons, and you shouldn't do it unless you know what you're doing. For the case of an embedded device, system mode is probably the right thing to do, since most of those security issues are less applicable on a specialised device.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i dunno

                    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                    Are you volunteering to offer support for "PulseAudio EVERYWHERE"?
                    Perhaps your English is not so good! Can you tell the difference between "making an observation" and "volunteering for work"?

                    You know that software like PulseAudio has security issues, and so it needs to be updated regularly?

                    If you patch up PulseAudio so you can embed it in your device, now you have a patch that needs to be maintained. If you sell a device that embeds PulseAudio, now you have added complication to your software update process and your users are going to be vulnerable for longer.

                    If you want your product to achieve market penetration you need to make it EASY for your code to propogate, not HARD.

                    Besides the PulseAudio developers would find their work to be EASIER if they supported a wide range of platforms because they will be will be talking to other copies of PulseAudio instead of whatever Apple is using and whatever Google is using and whatever samsung is using etc.

                    Yes indeed it is possible to open the hood and look at the engine and make observations and your name does not need to be John DeLorean or Ferdinand Porsche. It is indeed possible for potential users of product to decide "this mess is not worth my time" and they can only do that by looking with a critical eye.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by supervacuo View Post
                      Show me some other free software for GNU/Linux that lets me seamlessly and independently flip different audio streams between headphones, bluetooth and network audio devices with a nice GUI ...
                      Would you mind telling me what sort of circumstances have conspired to make you want to be able to do that kind of audio ninja kung-fu? I'm serious here, not trolling. It sounds like a neat feature, but why would someone want to do this? I've never understood who this functionality is marketed to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Larian View Post
                        Would you mind telling me what sort of circumstances have conspired to make you want to be able to do that kind of audio ninja kung-fu? I'm serious here, not trolling. It sounds like a neat feature, but why would someone want to do this? I've never understood who this functionality is marketed to.
                        I routinely want to move audio streams (mostly music, sometimes games) between my headphones and 5.1 stereo, and less frequently to a computer in the next room, which is hooked up to a nicer stereo unit. I find it convenient to run the music on the speakers most of the time, and then move stuff to the headphones when running games (voip and all that)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Larian View Post
                          Would you mind telling me what sort of circumstances have conspired to make you want to be able to do that kind of audio ninja kung-fu? I'm serious here, not trolling. It sounds like a neat feature, but why would someone want to do this? I've never understood who this functionality is marketed to.
                          I have a laptop set up next to the TV in my room. If I'm on the actual laptop using it like a desktop then all audio is routed through Pulse via the Veromix Applet to the laptop's speakers. If I want to watch a movie though then I pull up Smplayer and direct Pulse to output Smplayer's audio only over HDMI to the TV. I can switch around those streams as much as I want and everything keeps on chugging online seamlessly other than a brief stutter right when I change output wherein Pulse has to redirect the audio stream, after that half second though audio is perfectly fine with zero stutters or anything.

                          As far as Networked... what if you have your house wired with bluetooth speakers and youre having a party or some other get to together. Pull up your laptop/desktop, tell Pulse that the audio output device is the bluetooth speakers, setup a playlist and all your music will be sent throughout the entire house to the speakers seamlessly.

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                          • #14
                            From a user perspective PulseAudio is fantastic. The only thing lacking is the ease of mixing different channels, especially for INPUT.

                            Example if I want to record audio from a youtube clip playing in Firefox, there's little means to do this graphically. I may be able to do this in a commandline but hey, that's not to be expected from majority of Users.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
                              Perhaps your English is not so good! Can you tell the difference between "making an observation" and "volunteering for work"?

                              You know that software like PulseAudio has security issues, and so it needs to be updated regularly?

                              If you patch up PulseAudio so you can embed it in your device, now you have a patch that needs to be maintained. If you sell a device that embeds PulseAudio, now you have added complication to your software update process and your users are going to be vulnerable for longer.

                              If you want your product to achieve market penetration you need to make it EASY for your code to propogate, not HARD.

                              Besides the PulseAudio developers would find their work to be EASIER if they supported a wide range of platforms because they will be will be talking to other copies of PulseAudio instead of whatever Apple is using and whatever Google is using and whatever samsung is using etc.

                              Yes indeed it is possible to open the hood and look at the engine and make observations and your name does not need to be John DeLorean or Ferdinand Porsche. It is indeed possible for potential users of product to decide "this mess is not worth my time" and they can only do that by looking with a critical eye.
                              Stop FUDing and flooding.
                              Your original claim is invalid as Pulse audio system mode is running PA via global single daemon instance and is disabled by default.
                              As explicitly stated by PulseAudio Developers, if you want to mess with system mode, you should understand how PA works or your will be ignored.

                              So go understand PulseAudio before you flood, so your can use "critical eye" and not "slimy tongue" as of now.

                              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                              From a user perspective PulseAudio is fantastic. The only thing lacking is the ease of mixing different channels, especially for INPUT.

                              Example if I want to record audio from a youtube clip playing in Firefox, there's little means to do this graphically. I may be able to do this in a commandline but hey, that's not to be expected from majority of Users.
                              PulseAudio is meant for efficient audio mixing and broadcasting. For mixing of individual streams there is Jack.
                              To record audio from youtube clip, download the clip using any plugin for your browser (at least 3 working), then drag-n-drop the clip onto Audacity 2.0+ instance.
                              Last edited by crazycheese; 12-13-2012, 01:47 AM.

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