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Canonical Releases Upstart 1.6

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Teho View Post
    Sure. You don't get the socket activated and heavily parallelized boot process and other similar modern features for free. Still if I'm not mistaken the PID1 part is (mostly) responssible for just launching daemons in various different ways.
    So why would I pay for these modern feautures, if I don't need them?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by LightBit View Post
      So why would I pay for these modern feautures, if I don't need them?
      Then dont pay for them. Stay away. It is free software not forced software.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
        So what does a userland vs kernelland fight bring to the table? Nothing. This is about mutual exclusive init systems where one is a complete whack crack piece of deadware and the other is not.

        Upstart is a piece of old dung that needs to go away. systemd is the messenger.
        upstart isn't nearly as bad/old as sysvinit (upstart was created in 2006 and is still decently modern, but its development isn't very active these days and seems to be in "maintenance mode"). My guess is that if they switch to systemd, it won't be until after the next lts release. Nothing wrong with them staying with upstart for now, but I do think they will need to switch in the future.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ryao View Post
          I doubt anyone here will listen to me, but what Canonical is doing in Ubuntu is actually better for system reliability. Developers capable of reviewing systemd on technical merits find that it makes Linux systems less reliable. I do not think that the systemd developers even attempt to dispute this. The issue is that the kernel will panic if PID 1 dies and systemd's design makes it very difficult to avoid failures in PID 1.
          afiak upstart also depends on PID1....
          https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/160150
          Last edited by bwat47; 11-16-2012, 09:37 AM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ryao View Post
            I get it from being a distribution developer. It is what people that develop distributions that plan to avoid systemd have concluded.
            Several large distros have already switched to systemd, and I've used a few of them. I've never had any reliability issues with systemd, and these distros haven't had any major reliability issues with it. This screams of FUD. If you dislike some technical aspects of systemd, fine, but no need to spread silly fud like "its proven to be unreliable".

            Distros that have switched to systemd just off the top of my head: Fedora, Opensuse, Mageia, Mandriva, Arch, Frugalware.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
              Then dont pay for them. Stay away. It is free software not forced software.
              Free software backed by Red Hat == forced software.

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              • #52
                Gentoo Forked Udev over Systemd

                http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.project/2262

                Seems that not everyone is happy with systemd.

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                • #53
                  Kinda-sorta derail:

                  ryao, I see you're backing one of the two udev forks from the Gentoo camp. Could you list the differences between those? Why two forks?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by LightBit View Post
                    Free software backed by Red Hat == forced software.
                    Thats just stupid. Go read your rights at fsf.org. Only a neckbeard without his tin foil hat believes in collective suppresion enforced by evil forces.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by curaga View Post
                      Kinda-sorta derail:

                      ryao, I see you're backing one of the two udev forks from the Gentoo camp. Could you list the differences between those? Why two forks?
                      As I have told others, including those that work on Debian and Ubuntu, that was not an official project announcement. I wrote that email to preempt a policy decision by the Gentoo Council that would have negatively affected the goals of our nascent project. A consequence of doing fully open source development is that with the exception of issues involving the security of our infrastructure, all of our internal emails are public.

                      To address your question, our primary goal is compatibility. Previous conversations between one of the existing Gentoo udev maintainers and the udev brain-damaged udev developer(s) showed that they are not willing to make as strong an effort toward compatibility as we are. The decisions that they have made would give us more work as we work toward our first release. We hope that the two efforts could merge in the future, but we have higher priority goals for our first release.

                      I could say more, but I am going to say to wait for our official announcement.
                      Last edited by ryao; 11-16-2012, 01:23 PM.

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                      • #56
                        Could you elaborate on what you mean by compatibility?

                        Compatibility with systemd? With the kernel? With old udev versions?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by curaga View Post
                          Could you elaborate on what you mean by compatibility?
                          Yes.

                          Originally posted by curaga View Post
                          Compatibility with systemd?
                          With the udev part of the freedesktop repository where systemd is hosted, not the systemd part.

                          Originally posted by curaga View Post
                          With the kernel?
                          Yes.

                          Originally posted by curaga View Post
                          With old udev versions?
                          Yes.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
                            Thats just stupid. Go read your rights at fsf.org. Only a neckbeard without his tin foil hat believes in collective suppresion enforced by evil forces.
                            "udev on non-systemd systems is in our eyes a dead end, in case you haven't noticed it yet. I am looking forward to the day when we can drop that support entirely." -- Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

                            I know it can be forked (luckily Gentoo devs already did it), but you never know what comes next.

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                            • #59
                              I haven't yet found which of those did the braindead fork's people disagree with, but I suppose it'll get clearer soon.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by LightBit View Post
                                "udev on non-systemd systems is in our eyes a dead end, in case you haven't noticed it yet. I am looking forward to the day when we can drop that support entirely." -- Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

                                I know it can be forked (luckily Gentoo devs already did it), but you never know what comes next.
                                Go with the fork. No one is forcing you.

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